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Question on PW800+

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kcbullets, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    Since I began using my PW800+ a few months ago I always had it set up on an auto drive. That is a very nice system, but I was bending too many primer rams so I decided to load some manually to get a better feel for the machine. The question is, at the top of the handle stroke there seems to be some drag, sometimes a slight popping noise (from I assume the primer being seated). Sometimes it is very smooth and sometimes not so much. I understand some primers seat more difficultly than others and only want to make sure this is normal. Or is there a setting that helps minimize that? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. skeezix

    skeezix Member

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    I have about 50k loaded on my 800+, I've never bent a primer ram. If you're bending rams - something is wrong.

    If you load one shell at a time do you still get the pop / drag? At the prime/dprime station?
     
  3. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    skeezix - are you loading manually or with auto drive? I've only bent primer rams when using auto drive, not manually. With the auto drive the primer doesn't drop in to hole occasionally and then the ram snags and bends. Manually I have had no problem with bent rams and of course I can watch for the primer dropping properly more closely.

    I have not tried to load one shell at a time. I guess you mean using it like a single stage.
     
  4. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure the pop noise and drag aren't caused by the shell sticking in the shell holder just before it is ejected?

    I had a similar experience with that being the cause. I took fine sandpaper and smoothed the interior surface and then put oil on my finger and applied it to the inside of the shell holder.
     
  5. lucky hunter

    lucky hunter Member

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    I do not use autodrive and sometimes when I am pushing the handle forward to get that "click" noise, I have to push hard on the handle. I found this is because the machine is having a hard time re-sizing the hull. Not sure if this help you or not but good luck!

    Kyle
     
  6. Rubicon_Joey

    Rubicon_Joey Active Member

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    This is just a guess based on the info you have shared....It could be an indexing issue where shell holders are not centered in their respective stations (ie primer seating station). It's possible the the timing is off and your trying to press primers into the hull off-centered (ie into the brass and not the primer hole). Page 14&15 of your owners manual discuss this and how to fix it (mainly section (B) on page 15). I've included a link above for a manual if you don't have one. You might be able to put a little paint on your primer seating ram and run a hull through and then see where the primer ram is striking your primer. If it's not centered you have problems.

    It's also not a bad idea to read through the manual and check your adjustments/set-up. Reading the manual does wonders to improve your understanding of how the whole machine works and thus improves your troubleshooting abilities.
     
  7. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    Thanks, I will double check the issues mentioned above. I am pretty sure its the primer. But I will also check the timing issue mentioned by Rubicon.
     
  8. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    kcbullets,

    What shell are you loading?

    Jim Skeel<br>P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
  9. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    Jim, I am using 12 gauge, and AAHS hulls, and Win 209's.
     
  10. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Your timing is off, Adjust it with the two set screws on the side of the shell plate. I use the electric drive all the time and have never bent a primer punch. You also might have to take your primer system apart and make sure everything is straight, smooth, and moving as it should.
     
  11. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    It could be the primer tray/track is putting torque on the primer feed assembly. Be careful about alignment.

    Best ....mike
     
  12. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    Want to put my 2 cents in too... My 800+ doesn't care too much for steel hulls. They don't want to seat. That prevents the "click".

    I have the older hydraulic set up. I have a few 1000 to load. Switched back to manual operation for those hulls.

    As for the primer ram. I have had in the past had to put a small shim to push the primer assembly back about a 1/16th of an inch.

    I do know that these machines SHOULD not need any owner adjustment. Please be careful if you make an adjustment that is away from OEM specs.
     
  13. JT 27

    JT 27 Member

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    I have over 15 yr.s and 200,000 rd.s of experience with an 800 and factory hydraulic assist. I learned early to make the following visual checks to avoid trouble: on the up stroke, make sure the die plate indexes fully. as the down stroke begins, make sure the primer is on the ram and the empty is properly placed. I have had problems with steel base shells wanting to come back with my auto shell feed (magnetism) so have quit using them. I have had shot get on the primer ram which will tilt the primer. The shot will get flattened and would be difficult to see after the first primer flattens it.
     
  14. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    99% of the time with the operating handle on its return stroke, what you hear is the result of the powder gear returning to home position. There is probably built-up powder and/ or shot residue on and/or under the shut-off plate(s), causing the gear to rise a small amount. As the Rack Gear returns the gear to home, the o-ring is rubbing excessively on the underside of the shot & powder reservoir.

    Drain the system, remove the reservoir and then remove both the shot and powder gears. Unscrew the shot-off handels and then insert them vertically down into the shut-off plates and screw then in. Then wiggle the shut-off plates UP & OUT of the aluminum top plate. Be careful because the detennt ball-bearing want to pop out and drop down through the drop tubes of drain tubes.

    THEN THOROUGHLY clean the entire area prior to reassembly.

    I HIGHLY recommend changing the detent coil springs from the factory spring upon reassembly. P/W uses cut off spring stock and if you examine the coils they will most likely be or should be tossed. You'll see whren you look at them. I have a coil spring manufacturer make custom coils with finished ends much like a ball point pen coil spring (shorter, of course).

    You should do the above procedure because if you do not, you will eventually break the single upper actuating, or both the lower actuating arms.

    Now all this being said, and I make this observation only because you mention primer seating problems. Primer problems should only occur when you almost have the operating handle in its final back position. P/W uses 12L14 steel in most of their machining. This is often called "Leadlloy" or "thread steel." They use this metal because it cuts like butter and their CNC tooling lasts much longer. The down side is that it is very soft and prone to bending.

    This is another situation where I have a machine shop in Ohio make this seating post out of harder steel. I also make the primer rams out of this same steel.

    WW
     
  15. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    Whiz, I completed your suggestion. Cleaned it all and there wasn't anything below the shut off plates. I still get the pop, and hard primer seat about 30-40% of the time. Some nice and smooth, and then some more difficult. Seems that if it was out of alignment it would do it 100% of the time. Everything looks to be in alignment. Maybe this is normal! I thought about trying to put a video on here to show it.
     
  16. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    If you are getting the "pop" when using the auto drive, check to make sure that the auto driv likage is not camming over past center. Shorten the linkage until the popping stops. If you disconnect the auto drive and use the manual bar and the popping stops, you have found the problem.

    John
     
  17. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Are you trying to reload the steel based hulls? Ifs, this could be the issue.

    Whiz
     
  18. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    I am currently operating the machine manually, and I am using AA hulls. I am going to mark the dies that the pop takes place on at station one to see if its the same dies. But as far as timing, everything looks to be in alignment.
     
  19. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    mike, that makes since and i am going to look at that more closely.. Do you get it with Rem hulls, ie. sts?
     
  20. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    I may have figured the noise out and it had to do with the shell not being pushed in to the shell die far enough on station one. I noticed that the shell was not fully seated in the die at station two. I believe when the primer was being seated, the occasional pop noise was the shell being seated further in to the die. I adjusted the shell post on station one, seating the shell further, and no more noise.