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Question for Phil Kiner

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by blade819, Sep 21, 2011.

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  1. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sitting in my Motorhome at the NC HOF shoot and because I grabbed a bunch of Trap DVD's decided to watch the Kiner DVD. I haven't watched it for awhile and during the first 15mins I came up with this question on gun swing. Do you raise your head as you raise your gun to maintain correct eye down the rib set?

    blade819
     
  2. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    I'm certainly not Phil Kiner, although I do have his tape.

    From experience, I can say it's never a good idea to raise your head once you see the target, and start your swing. When you mount your gun, and you did mention the word "set", I always do a quick "bead check" to make sure I'm not in what I call "crunch down mode". That would be where I'm overly tight on the stock and the beads are on top of each other. I can get that way as the adrenaline kicks in.

    When I see that happening, I try to relax a bit, and remember what I'm trying to do. Break the target.
     
  3. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    I asked this question because I was tought otherwise. That is to maintain alignment of the right eye and rib as you swing up. In order to do that, the shooter has to raise his head up as he swings the gun up. Any other way would take you out of alignment.Maybe swinging the head up is the wrong term since I use my upper torso to swing up.

    blade819
     
  4. Shooter R

    Shooter R Active Member

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    blade819, You should not need to raise your head to keep you "in allignment". Your start position should be relaxed, and bead alignment, read that: head postion, should be maintained whether your shooting up, down, or sideways. In my opinion.

    I personally do not use the beads once I call for the taqrget, but I do know where they are. Especially at handicap.
     
  5. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Once the target is in the air the only parts moving should be your waist, and your eyes. The alignment should never change. Curious as to how Phil will answer. Jon
     
  6. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Shooting coaches recommend that the shooter bend forward slightly at the waist and lean slightly forward as part of their stance. To raise the gun to follow an upward target all that's necessary it to straighten the upper body from the waist. The barrel will automatically elevate while the head remains firmly on the stock.

    Mike
     
  7. archangel

    archangel Member

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    Gun head and "torso" move as a unit head is locked to the stock. Phil did a nice class at st Charles last weekend and nicely pointed out my many faults
     
  8. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    So what I was taught is correct. The gap between the bill of your hat and the rib of the gun should not change as you raise.

    blade819
     
  9. archangel

    archangel Member

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    That's exactly what he pointed out on the video: the bill of the cap and the barrel
     
  10. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Except for one thing. The students in his video, first 15 mins. were not doing it and he did not point it out in the video.

    blade819
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Why don't you guys let Phil Kiner answer this mans post, he addressed it to him.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  12. archangel

    archangel Member

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    I'm sorry I did not mean his video but when he recorded our group.
     
  13. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not certain what you're asking, if you're asking should you raise your head before mounting your gun so you can gun see down the rib, then I would say Phil needs to answer this.

    If you're asking if after mounting your gun, Phil States in his video the bottoms up concept, planting your feet properly and firmly at each station for easy body movement. Pulling the gun into your shoulder frimly, placing your cheek/head firmly on the comb and making the gun and body a singlr unit. Once you have completed this readying routine, you keep it place until the shot is completed. You don't move or shift anything until the shot fired. All these things are basics to breaking targets. The ability to reapeat these basics exactly the same shot after shot is the road to winning scores, Phil has proved this time and again.

    If you have to raise your head for any reason to see the rib or see the target, regardless where's it's flying, then you a gun mount or gun fit issue.

    Watch Phil's video several times, pay attention how he addresses the trap and mounts his gun, it's absolutely same evry time, look at the cheek pressure he maintains on his comb it never varies, never.

    Surfer
     
  14. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Never knew there were so many Phil Kiners in the trapshooting game.
     
  15. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    If that is Phil's philosphy, then why didn't he point it out in the video. It is so apparent as you look over the shoulder of the 4 guys that they are not using the one piece method. Not trying to cause trouble, I'm like Luke Skywalker searching for the correct answer from Yoda. (not YODA100)

    blade819
     
  16. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I'm only regurgitating what Phil talks about in his video, bottoms up. I don't claim to be anything or anyone........ The over the shoulder shots deal with shooting the target under and behind and over or cross firing zig zag moves. Only Phil can speak for the participating shooters forms.

    I can say this, all great shooters I've watched are like CNC machines, every move from walking on station, mounting their gun, shooting and completing the shot is the same every time with no variance.

    Surfer
     
  17. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Surfer,

    That's called repetition. Everything is done without thinking, allowing maximum concentration. As stated on another thread. If you are thinking, you are not concentrating. Jon
     
  18. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Blade- I sent you my phone number via email- why not call me and talk to me directly rather than sending questions to me on this forum???
     
  19. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Actually received some great opinions.

    blade819
     
  20. trapshooterjoe7

    trapshooterjoe7 Member

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    Phil is one of the best and a true gentleman..
     
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