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Question for Neil or Pat

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rick (Pa), Jul 28, 2008.

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  1. Rick (Pa)

    Rick (Pa) TS Member

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    Neil or Pat, I have a rules question. We were at a shoot & one fellow shot a 46 out of his first 50 targets when a thunderstorm rolled in. he ran off the line and wanted to quit. some thought his score would count as 46X50 others thought because it was a 100 bird event it would be counted as 46X100 I would like an official ruling thanks
    Rick
     
  2. zinger

    zinger Member

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    Hit 46 out of 100 = 46/100 because it was a 100 bird event, not a 50 bird event. Was the shoot cancelled? Or, did everyone clear the line and he didn't go back?
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Did they finish the remaining 50 targets or did the shoot management stop the event at just the 50 targets?

    If they stopped the event at just 50 then he shot a 46 of 50 and if they continued and he backed out then he would shoot a 46 of 100.

    Give all the details of what happened so they can give a proper response, did they continue to shoot or not? Did they let him or not? Seriously now what happened? Was it you that this happened to? What did you do?
     
  4. OldMnGopher

    OldMnGopher TS Member

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    As long as he didn't start 3rd sup-event,it will count as 46/50..
     
  5. OldMnGopher

    OldMnGopher TS Member

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    sorry,, sub-event
     
  6. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Mr. N -

    Love to see where in the rule book you got the info for your interpretation?

    Scott
     
  7. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    You said two magical words that go hand in hand with the ATA Suggestive Book of Guidlines ... rule and interpretation.

    As was jokingly said to me at a shoot this weekend after 2 worse than normal handicap traps when I jokingly said thats it I'm done for and I dont want to shoot anymore ... well ... the shoot director jokingly said no problem but it'll be a proud score of ?? of 100 reported to the ATA ... are you telling me I could have refused to shoot the rest and it would have not hurt me at all?
     
  8. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Lumper, if you had completed the subevents that you started, it would not have hurt you to skip the remaining subevents you never started. It is in the rulebook and not an interpretation.
     
  9. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Page 29 C 4. The first 25 will be scored.Not enough info provided to tell what the score should be.
     
  10. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    46/50 - gawd I love the on-line rule book..

    Page 29-30 Rule VII. C. 4.

    When a contestant voluntarily withdraws from, or is otherwise disqualified, and takes no further part in a sub-event after having fired at 1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST” targets and they shall be scored and reported accordingly. When the shooter is prevented by reasons beyond his/her control from completing a sub-event, the scores for that partial sub-event shall not be recorded or reported. Example: shooters have shot 61 targets of a 100-target event when a storm permanently stops shooting. The management should report the scores for the first 50 targets only.

    He shot at more than one target of the second sub-event, then all 50 targets count. Since he had not started the third sub-event, tagets 51-100 DO NOT count. Pretty cut and dry.

    John
     
  11. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    He did not finish the second sub event. it should be X/25.
     
  12. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    If he volutarily withdrew, it would be 46x50. If shoot management stopped the shoot and did not resume the event, then yes, it would be x25.

    John
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The last two posters gave the correct answer. Only the first completed sub event would count if the shoot was canceled. If the shoot resumed after the thunderstorm and the contestant withdrew, his score would be 46/50.

    Mr Newbius©- I suggest you read the rule book one more time.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Pat -

    I'm trying to keep things straight here, but if Mr. N read the rule book "one more time" I think that would bring the grand total to 1.

    Scott
     
  15. Rick (Pa)

    Rick (Pa) TS Member

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    Just to clear somethineg up. The shoot was NOT stopped in any way. It just started raining hard. After he shot at his 50Th. target he came off the line. He then said he would like to quit. No one at the club could tell him the rule for sure. So he waited then went back and shot the last 50 targets. If he would not have returned his score would have been 46X50 is that correct

    Rick
     
  16. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Not to thread hijack, but along the same lines I've always had a question about this . . . someone shoots the first 50 targets of a 100 target handicap event and goes 50x50, then heads for home. Punch, no punch? 75x75 and takes off, punch, no punch? I haven't found what appears to be an applicable rule (but I have at least looked!).

    Scott
     
  17. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    "...one fellow shot a 46 out of his first 50 targets... "

    I found it a little disconcerting yet a little amusing, that a lot of responders read that as the fellow only shot at 46 targets.


    Scott,

    9/1/07 ATA Rules,...page 24, Section VI, D. 3.

    I would say no punch for either a 50 or 75 straight in a 100 target event. Now if shoot management changes to a 50 or 75 target event for what ever reason, weather, power failure, etc; I would say 1/2 yard punch or more if yardage table dictates.

    Jason
     
  18. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    BIG PAPA, was it quite a few years ago and when we shot 30-20-30-20 at the Grand? If so that is correct they way they have it on your target count.
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Rick- Your conclusion on your last post is correct.

    If you begin a sub event, and voluntarily withdraw before completing the sub event, the remaining targets you did not shoot are scored as lost. If you voluntarily withdraw from a 100 bird race after you have completed the third sub event, your score will be reported as X/75.

    If you begin the second sub event of a 100 bird race, and the management is required to stop the shoot, only the birds shot in the first sub event will be recorded.

    Usually in singles and handicap, a sub event is 25 birds (50 if shooting 10 per post). Most doubles sub events are 50 birds. At a club that only throws a 50 bird doubles events, the sub event would be the same as the event.

    Pat Ireland
     
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