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question for Mr Oswald

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by maclellan1911, Aug 5, 2007.

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  1. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    When attempting to raise my adjustable comb, at a point I started to get a noticable recoil affest to my cheek area. Any insight on why this would happen?
     
  2. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    You raised it too high. I started mounting my gun higher on my shoulder after reading Rollin's book and finding I was mounting the gun totally wrong. When I did this the gun started to hit my cheek so hard that I actually was not having fun shooting. I moved the comb down and it totally went away, and my scores have been slowly improving ever since. Thank you Rollin for writing such a great book!
     
  3. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    jbmOU;

    Thank you for the compliment on the book. I'm glad it provided insight.

    mac...;

    Please..., "Rollin", no formality is necessary.

    There are number of causes of "cheek slap," the common name for what you are suffering. You did not mention the reason you raised your comb but it might be involved with the cause of your cheek slap.

    "mac..." makes a good point. The only valid reason for raising a comb is to better align the eye with the rib or to raise the gun's point of impact. It should not be raised to allow the head to be more upright, a relatively common reason some shooters raise it.

    As to why cheek slap began when your raised your comb, I do not know. A number of possibilities exist. They are:

    A change in the way the cheek makes contact with the comb

    The increased pressure of the cheek on the comb required with the increased comb height

    Mounting the gun too high on the shoulder, which causes it to rotate on the toe of the recoil pad rather than on the heel during recoil

    Needing to turn the head too far toward the stock (for any reason.)

    Too much weight transferred to your back foot with the raised comb

    I do not imagine the above list is much help in identifying the cause of your cheek slap. As you noticed, possible causes can relate to an aspect of your shooting form, to a poorly fitting stock dimension and maybe, both.

    I strongly suspect that it is both, that you are using raising the comb to compensate for something unrelated to comb height. What it might be, I would not wish to guess.

    Sorry I could not be more helpful.

    Rollin
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I raise my comb to change POI. OEM post where beat up and to short. After replacing I find a point of height that seem to be deminishing returns. I get a high POI but the cheek slap. I played with the height until I found a happy medium. I used your book to help with my issues. Also to fit my wifes stock. This was a questioned asked of me. I was just relaying what had happened in my process of raising my point of impact. Then i was asked why did it start slapping your cheek? I think now that becouse of the more upright head I was changing my posture to such that there was a weight shift and a slightly different contact on my cheek. I had posted early in the year about being lefty and having a righty gun. I have adjusted a few things. The stock has some toe out to it. Which shooting lefty the toe was digging in to me. Some creative recoil pad shaping has helped that issue. Im planning on a rad 2 or bumpbuster from speedbump to resolve those issues completly. But for now Im shooting 100% better after reading you book and a host of other great info out here on TS.
     
  5. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Mac;

    With that additional information, my suspicion changes to the effective pitch and remaining cast at the toe on your stock, especially with the right-hand stock issue and your being a left-handed shooter. Assuming that the cast at the toe is actually cast "off", there is only so much that can be done by reshaping the pad.

    Have you considered having the stock bent? It may be able to be twisted enough to get the cast to at least neutral. One of the devices you mentioned would also do the job.

    I'm happy to hear that the book was helpful. As you noticed, it does not directly address what to do when one's handedness is different than that for which the stock was designed. With cast at the heel or toe or was designed with an offset, it is difficult to impossible to make it fit.

    When other stock dimensions fit and the shooting form is correct, raising the comb, by itself, does not increase felt recoil to the face.

    Rollin
     
  6. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Being a lefty I have learned to adapt. In the fall I plan on getting a different stock with no cast and a rad 2 or bumpbuster. until then i have found a happy medium. Being lefty Ive learned to read everything in reverse, not always easy, but its all i can do. I have run into some guns with a exstreme righty syndrom that I could not adapt and adjust to lefty. The actual cast is not all that noticable but toe does lean into me, the grinding of the pad was mainly for comfort. I do beleive I have the pitch right, a very small shim was added to give me a bit more added pitch. just a touch did wonders. Why do the after market adjustment gizmos come with a pitch adjustment?
     
  7. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    doesn't the Morgan adjustable recoil pad have limited pitch adjustment?
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    rev..

    No, not the ones I have seen. They weren't even designed with the ability to rotate the pad to provide cast at the toe.

    Rollin
     
  9. gostrydr

    gostrydr TS Member

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    What is the function of PITCH?
     
  10. C H S

    C H S TS Member

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    Rollin,

    I have the new edition of your book but I don't remember seeing the following addressed in it:

    <I>"The only valid reason for raising a comb is to better align the eye with the rib or to raise the gun's point of impact. It should not be raised to allow the head to be more upright, a relatively common reason some shooters raise it."</I>

    What's not right about having your head more upright? If it reduces strain on the neck and the shoulders and enables the shooter to more comfortably keep their head on the comb, what's wrong with it?

    Andy
     
  11. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Andy;

    An upright head and neck is very desirable. It is better done however, by increasing the drop at the heel dimension (often, with one of the various pad or stock adjusters) or raising the gun mount so the heel is even with the top of the shoulder.

    irfner; (Are you "Michael K?)

    Yes, you will know everything there is to know; the entire knowledge of mankind is contained in the book. Before the 2007 printing, in addition to everything you will ever want to know about stock fitting, I added a paragraph at the end to provide solutions for global warming, interracial and interreligeous discord, abject poverty, starvation, illegal immigration, the thinning of the ozone layer, and the elimination of hangnails. (The last bit is a lie, starting with "I added a paragraph at the end...")Gotta be careful, here.

    Rollin
     
  12. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    I'm looking at the box from a Morgan pad....there is about a 1/4" of foam between the pad & the base, allowing you to tighten the bottom or top screw to adjust the pitch. Though, if i remember correctly, wasnt very effective.
     
  13. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    gostrydr;

    Sorry I missed your question earlier. The purpose of the correct pitch is to insure that the recoil pad or butt makes complete and equal contact, top to bottom, with the shoulder when the gun is mounted. Correct pitch offers a more secure gun mount with the rearward recoil spread over as great an area as possible.

    If the pitch is inadequate for example, the bottom toe of the pad sticks out too far causing the barrel-rise during recoil to be exaggerated, sometimes to the extent that the comb smacks the shooter in the cheek.

    Pitch, coupled with a dimension called cast at the toe, indicating the rotation of the recoil pad to better match the configuration of the shoulder pocket, assures a secure gun mount and minimal barrel rise along with a reduction of felt recoil.

    rev...;

    I have not seen the Morgan you describe but I have to wonder what the purpose of a quarter-inch of foam actually is. It can't offer more than an eighth-inch of pitch adjustment, which is close to useless as it would be for recoil dampening.

    Rollin
     
  14. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    Rollin, I think I came to the same conclusion after trying to use it when I first got it. Though, in the picture it makes it look like a nice pitch wedge.
     
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