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Question for Mr. Brad Dysinger

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Garry, Apr 7, 2012.

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  1. Garry

    Garry Active Member

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    Mr. Dysinger,

    I just read the thread you originated titled ATA,Sparta and Hampton.

    If you were king, what are the top 10 things you would change in priority sequence to significantly grow the ATA membership both short and long term?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Kemper

    Kemper Active Member

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    It's Emperor.

    Can't expect anyone to give away their secrets about business.

    But if the Emperor was to answer it might be:

    50 yard 3 hole targets

    Have an ED elected by the members

    Do away with the EC, that's what the delegates are for. Too much redundancy.

    Have a test at every shoot regarding the rules. In force same equally across the shooting venues.

    Mandatory reductions.

    Buy the airport in Vandalia and close it to just shooters.

    There is more.

    Vice Emperor
     
  3. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    Brad,my .02 cents worth.
    Any one that has accurate information regarding the Hampton's ethics would balk at having any business dealings with them. Ohio is gone as far as home grounds are concerned, I miss a lot of Vandalia but I enjoy Sparta. I would like to see:
    1, A strong Director who would manage the ATA
    2, Much less power for the EC, eliminating power to make unneeded change.
    3, A reduction in perks for the EC(ie;EC meetings at all the satelite grands w/ paid expenses)
    4, A return to the Rose Point payoff at The Grand.
    5, Improved relations with vendors,more perks for shooters, less $ for the ATA
    6, A return of the Professional classification to include those receiving free ammo, guns, giving lessons or you make a majority of your income from shooting.
    7, Less trophies but a better quality trophy.
    8, Eleminate the new classifications (everybody gets a trophy mentality)
    9, Less Satelite Grands, this is a phenomina to give big shoots to certain clubs
    10, Return to mandatory shells sold by the ATA at The Grand, revenue for the ATA to buy a home grounds when Illinois decides to want a bigger slice of the pie.
     
  4. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Finally there are a few that realize that the EC and the structure of the organization are it's own undoing.

    Joe goldberg
     
  5. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Garry,

    Do you think everything is peachie as it is ..? Barry Kemper and John Thompson gave many good to great reasons, with the exception (in my opinion) of mandatory reductions ... Mandatory reductions will cost the ATA more shooters than it would be worth and chase shooters to other venues ... Whats the difference where someone stands as long as they are paying their money to stand there and don't bitch about getting their lunch handed to them once its all over ... I don't think buying the airport in Vandalia would be a prudent move either, they already have the Cardinal Center ... JMHO ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    If a shooter cannot maintain his zones Hdcp. Break Point he has to take a reduction, if we lose shooters who cannot maintain their zones Hdcp break point
    so be it. He has something he or she has to work at.

    I doubt the ATA will lose shooters for mandatory reductions. If they do it will open more Motor Home and Camper spaces, a break even here.

    Shooters who quit on mandatory reductions are the one's who could not make it there w/o making yardage at small shoots anyway. Their buddies will be moving up with them.

    This should have been in the rules years ago, now here is a rule the EC can impose, Ok Hampton Make mandatory reductions.

    PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I am sorry for posting, question was presented to Brad, My apology Brad.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Longsh?t what do you care if a shooter takes his reductions or not. It's his damn money he is putting down. Go ahead and run off the motor home crowd and see what kind of attendance you have, see how many targets the clubs will throw. See who they come asking for money when they run out You are absolutely anal in your thinking, if that is what you call it.

    Don
     
  9. Garry

    Garry Active Member

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    I have sent Mr. Dysinger a private message which is what I should have done to begin with.

    Thanks to everyone who replied.
     
  10. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Garry I've sent you a pm, I'll post on here for everyone after I give it some thought, I know most things I'd do but need to think them through one to ten for you. I've got the flue bug today spent the day in bed. Brad
     
  11. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    dscxa
     
  12. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Ten things I'd do in order.

    1. Change Political set up of ATA, Do away with zone vice president and delegate system and go to a one shooter one vote BOD elected for 2, 3, and 4 staggered year terms no matter what state from. Have that BOD select a chairman to run the political operations and hire a true powerful ED.

    2. Simplify the rule book go back to the 60's or 70's version.

    3. Set the targets at minimum three hole, 50 yards.

    4. Mandatory reductions, only 17% of the resent 2 yd reductions were refused. The ATA has let the 17% screw up the system for the other 83%. What election is decided 83 to 17?

    5. Do away with punches at shoots under 100 shooters, No score punches, (96 and above), No money punches.

    6. Do away with the handicap code system.

    7. Do away with the ATA all american point system. This system has caused the ATA to put to much emphases on it to the detriment of the sport. Betty Ann Foxworthy told me the biggest regret she had in trap shooting was starting the Trap and Field High average award. This ATA points insanity is worse.

    8. Do away with all the new categories, they are to costly for the clubs, don't mean anything and cheapen the sport to the point everyone is special, everyone wins. Bob Stuart told me that at Florida over 75% of shooters were in a categorie. Lovely, trap shooting has become T-Ball.

    9. Do away with the sat. grands.

    10. "First" fire Mike Hampton before it's to late.

    Brad Dysinger
     
  13. MDJ67

    MDJ67 Active Member

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    Brad,

    I have to agree on all except #4. I have seen this brought up on other threads. Explain how mandatory reductions do anything. If shooter wants to play T-ball and shoot bad that only affects him/her. I gladly took reduction. How's that model 42 workin out ?

    Mark D Johnson
     
  14. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    JUst wondering how does 17 percent screw up system for the other 83 percent?

    GneJ
     
  15. Garry

    Garry Active Member

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    Thanks Mr. Dysinger for your top 10 list.

    I for one like your list of solutions. If the majority of registered shooters agree with all or most of your solutions, what the best way to get these implemented quickly? The question on how to implement is open to anyone who wishes to reply.

    Thanks,
    Garry
     
  16. dtrap

    dtrap Member

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    Thanks Brad for your post and the ideas generated from it.....along with your sage adcice. Hopefully we will save trapshooting from its downward spiral.
     
  17. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    @garry: <i> If the majority of registered shooters agree with all or most of your solutions, what the best way to get these implemented quickly? The question on how to implement is open to anyone who wishes to reply.</i>

    ahhh ... NOW comes the hard part.

    Brad's views are reasonably-well known to anybody who had read him over the years, (and they don't differ much from many other thoughtful people's views), however anybody with any experience with change management will quickly see that any of these have to be accomplished from the INSIDE, as part of a PROCESS, and a PLAN ... yanno, POLITICAL?

    That means that Brad (or somebody like him, with some charisma, gravitas and some experience and trust) has to get INSIDE, build ALLIANCES, and head the committee to re-write/update/modernize the BY-LAWS.

    Changing any traditional org. (the ATA) is like turning a battleship: it takes a lot of hands, plenty of space and takes 'forever.'

    I doubt most ATA shooters are dissatisfied with the current trend and would be enthusiastic supporters, at least at first, vice: his T-Ball analogue of the 75% category shooters at the Spring Flings ... at least a significant number of tournament shooters seem to like the 'pretty ribbon & AA points' idea.

    First, Brad has to run and be elected as Ohio delegate ... all else is carping & chin-music.

    Brad has a leg-up, however, with (at least) one natural ally inside, already: Kainer (who did not want to be 'political', neither.)

    Bob
     
  18. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    Brad,

    Interesting list, lots to think about.

    Regarding #1, the inherent flaw with this, is that one region could set up rules that only benefited a small geographically myopic area and not take into consideration the diversity of the trapshooting universe. I understand your argument about under representation of shooters by volume, but there needs to be some sort of check so that the rest of the shooters from around the country don't feel as if they have no voice. I'm not sure what that should be, but it opens the discussion.

    Please explain the rational behind #5 for me. By only punching shooters at shoots over 100, it would set up abuse so that shooters who have shown mastery at their current yardage could "manage their targets, as Ollie says", to run roughshod, cleaning up at smaller clubs and save themselves to be short yardage at the Grand. How would this potential abuse be mitigated?

    Regards,

    Chip Porter
     
  19. minnship8

    minnship8 Well-Known Member

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    Goatskin,

    I disagree that Brad has to be elected to affect the needed change. The most powerful people in politics sit on the party committees and are unelected.

    Building the coalition would start with finding already sitting delegates that are like minded. Then those delegates need to come up with a list of prioritized changes that they would like to implement. At that point, the coalition would go to other delegates it sees on the fence and try to enlist their support.

    If the coalition still does not have enough delegates to make a majority at that point, then the grass roots support comes into play. They need to go to states where the sitting delegate is not coalition oriented and openly stump for a new coalition candidate to become elected. In two years, with as much apathy as seems to be prevalent, it would be logical that the coalition would then have a majority of delegates to begin electing them to the EC year after year. In my experience, after the first coalition EC member is elected, the handwriting is on the wall and you begin to see compliance with new thinking and direction.

    I do disagree with the policy of making a powerful ED. I understand the reasoning, but that makes one person too powerful without being answerable to the electorate that he is supposed to be representing.

    Regards,

    Chip Porter
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Chip, if that newly elected ED was signed with stipulations to produce or else answer to the BODs instead of the ECs, that would be real change with the delegates wanting what's best for our sport. If he comes up with ideas that grow the sport, he continues?

    As I've said here on TS C for years, be damned careful who you elect as your state delegate!

    That somewhat careful selection process ended in the late 70s and became a popularity contest among the best 27 yard shooters in the state. Were all of those elected looking out for the sports best interests or possibly for some to tweak their scores for higher averages? Egos do have a way of interfering with decision making?

    Hap
     
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