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question for GunDr

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Johnny, Nov 13, 2012.

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  1. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    GunDr, Question for you. When you tighten up the forearm metal on a BT, do you weld metal to the end of the forearm iron where it bumps against the barrel tang or do you solder a thin piece of metal to the end. Seems soldering a thin piece of metal with high temp silver solder would be best. Would you use a 4100 series piece of metal?
     
  2. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    You weld up the back of the bbl lug or preferred you add a bit of weld or a new key to the interior of the forend metal where the lug contacts.

    You may find some temporary success using Wheel Bearing Grease as a barrier between all the metal touching parts.Radiuses, lugs, hinge pins, Etc.
     
  3. todddietrich

    todddietrich Active Member

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    I traded for an older SKB. The previous owner had glued strips of aluminum soda can to the forearm metal. I was told all this up front, so it wasn't a surprise. I have since replaced the shims in the same manner. I cut oversized strips and polished the printing off the aluminum with steel wool. I degreased the bearing surface and glued them in with krazy glue. I used a razor blade to trim the aluminum to fit after it was glued on. I guess this is the redneck fix, but the gun is tight and works fine. I can clean the shims off with out much trouble too.

    Todd
     
  4. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Nice going Todd
     
  5. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Old trick was to squeeze the barrel lug in a large vise to lengthen the lug. This really isnt the right way of course, but it will work for a while. The best way is to weld and file to size wanted.
     
  6. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    To squeeze or peen the metal is not really a good idea. As grunt said, it will work for a while, but the metal will move back. We all know if a coat hanger is bent once it gets easier the second time till it breaks. I hesitate to weld for fear of damaging the metal and it will need to be done again eventually. That leaves soldering a thin piece onto the metal which can be repeated and shouldn't damage the metal. Same principal as the pop can, super glue idea. I have MAP torch and high temp solder[cadmium, silver] from Brownells. Not sure which metal to use. Chrome moly steel or something softer?
     
  7. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Tig weld it, use very little filler, then file it to fit.

    Wayne
     
  9. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    wayne, tig weld with what rod?
     
  10. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    I believe what you are asking may fall into the category of "trade secret", and thats why you haven't rec'd any answers from gunsmiths.
     
  11. ILClaysshooter01

    ILClaysshooter01 Member

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    I would think that a weld would be more of a permanent fix. If done properly and filed to fit the weld should be a strong as the barrel lug metal. Trying to glue something with super glue will just keep falling off.
     
  12. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    skeet man, don't know about trade secret but you are right no response from gunsmiths.

    ILClaysshooter01 , there is no permanent fix. Welding, at best, could only return it to like new. It will begin to wear again to the point where more weld is required. Not good for the metal. If I solder in a thin piece of metal it could be replaced when needed without heating the metal as much. I would have to remove metal to make room for the shim. I will pass on the super glue idea.
     
  13. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

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    Just a reminder that gunsmiths tend to be busier this time of year with hunters etc.

    I will normally weld the forend iron with chrome-moly rod or silver braze some high quality gun steel if there is a considerable length to add.

    Weld addition is for small extension, brazing a chunk is for bridging wide gaps, since brazing a very thin shim and then refitting may become a cut into the braze joint - definitely not what was wanted.

    I would avoid welding on the barrel lug in almost every situation, since the best advice is to normally expect to weld on the cheaper part, JIC.

    Only if some compelling reason makes working on the more expensive part a more prudent choice (cheaper part is vulnerable, thin, fragile, prone to warp, etc.) would I consider welding on the barrel lug, such as if the lug had been filed by a clown with an over-exuberant bastard file fixation and had severely re-shaped the contour beyond practical fit of an altered mating part.


    I hope that is considered a decent answer.

    Kirby
     
  14. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, thanks for the response. I may just try to find a welder I can trust who has chrome moly rods. I would only need to add a couple of thousandths. If I used a shim I would have to remove metal from the forearm iron and the barrel lug to make room. Not sure how thick the shim would have to be to hold up to use. This is a new model BT and there is not much metal between the end of the forearm iron and the screw. Sadly, Browning has removed as much metal in the forearm iron as they can to reduce costs.

    There is no way I will work on the barrel lug except to square up and flatten the surface.

    I laughed at your clown with a file comment. That subject comes up occasionaly here.
     
  15. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    Add a shin behind the for end metal not on the face, easier than other methods for small take up.
     
  16. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    oletymer , ??? please explain. What is the face? Is the face the end that rides against the receiver? We are discussing adding metal to the end of the forearm metal where it bumps against the barrel lug, making it longer. This is an area about 1/4" square.
     
  17. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about the late reply..15 yr old Dell harddrive crash.

    Soldering a shim to the forend lug generally will not work. Most instances you're only needing to add no more than .005" to tighten up an unaltered forend or lug. By the time you solder a shim and then true it flat, you'll be awfully close to the solder...too soft to maintain the tighter forend.

    Speaking of solder...if you are using silver solder/braze to attach the shim, the 1240+ degrees needed to melt the solder will loosen the lug from the bbl and will surely loosen the side ribs which are soft soldered on(approx.450 degrees). The use of the softer lead solder may work to some degree but with a thin shim and the soft low shear strength, the shim may eventually tear off.

    I weld all the lugs that need to have the actions tightened up. I do at least three to five every week and have done probably well over 500. Welding the lug is not for the faint of heart. A couple of seconds too long with the TIG and the solder joint will fail, along with the heat transfering to the side ribs on an O/U bbl and popping those off. The secret is getting on the lug, run a perfect flat even bead, and then get the hell off. Of course, I do have a fixture to work as a heat sink. This heat sink will allow anyone to place their hand within an inch of the lug while being welded without getting burnt.

    Welding the lug is a lot easier than trying to add material to the square slot on the forend iron. Also, no need to reblue the forend iron when welding the lug.

    So, short of having it welded, get yourself a few small pieces of shim stock of varying thicknesses. Cut them to the width of the forend slot and about 1/2" long. Bend a 90 degree into the shim in the middle and super glue it into the slot on the forend iron. Cut several, and throw the spares in your shooting bag.

    Doug
     
  18. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Doug, thanks for the reply. 15yr old dell? you got your money's worth.

    Fixing several a week shows they all need it eventually. That forearm iron should be adjustable for length. Would be a hot item. Sadly, Browning has made them just as cheaply as possible.
     
  19. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

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    I was wondering why the forend iron would require reblue, when the section to be welded is not exposed metal any more than the barrel under-lug is exposed when assembled.

    The forend lug on the barrel being welded is more for convenience of fitting, but there will be bare metal after the filing work is accomplished there, but that doesn't require a reblue, but an identical but longer time frame fitting job on another unexposed section requires some new blue?


    Like I say, I will weld on the less expensive part and spend more time fitting, and only do fitting work to the barrel lug if compelled for other reasons, such as poor contours, matching more than one barrel to the forend, or some similar and compelling situation.


    Potato, potatoe. If Doug wants to weld on the barrel with a short burst of controlled heat, I'm not saying his approach is unable to correct a fitment problem, but the technique is not my choice for the reasons detailed and other reasons that remain unmentioned.


    Kirby, another graduate from Colorado School of Trades, just like Doug. I will say that he was quite fortunate to have been at Kolar for a very long time, and many gunsmiths could be rightly envious of such an opportunity that is quite rare in the field.


    We both have much common ground that we recognize the reality of certain situations, such as the fact that porting of shotgun barrels does have a real, if sometimes somewhat subtle, effect on muzzle rise, since I recall his comment that a shooter could see the bird break after porting a gun that had originally masked the break from muzzle rise.



    BTW, remember this blast from the past about galled metal repair?


    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?ThreadID=270405


    The last commenter, Grandpa's, has a specialty reworked Remington 1100 trigger now that I fixed the corrupted mess he had been sold, represented as having a lightened target setup. I have never seen such an inconceivable idea put into practice, where the engagement was artificially reduced to almost nothing, and that alteration, at the same time, made the rest of mechanism's parts impossible to perform their expected function.
     
  20. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, those surfaces you mention don't come blued from the factory anyway. The gun is fitted together after bluing and those surfaces are exposed metal.
     
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