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Question-- coating wads with Motor Mica?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by shot410ga, Jul 8, 2010.

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  1. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I read where one of the regulars on TS is using Motor Mica on his wads. Puts a 1000 in a bag with a half teaspoon of "Motor Mica," then shakes them up a little. Is anyone else using this procedure? What is it doing for you? Is it worthwhile to try out?
     
  2. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    I do it on my hunting slug loads for hunting, I think it is worthwhile, and yes a little goes a long way in coating...BALLISTIC PRODUCTS has "stuff" on it...Grubby.
     
  3. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    shot410ga..... I, personally, believe Motor Mica is one of those little known gems that makes reloading much easier, not only on the one reloading, but, your machine as well. Try a little on some wads and you will immediately notice the wads slide into the hulls with little or no effort. No "snapping or popping" when the wad clears the wad fingers. I believe it also extends the life of the wad fingers as well. I am using the same, original, wad fingers that came with my MEC 9000H over 20 years ago. I have had a spare set of fingers in the drawer and they have been there for at least 15 years and never required changing. It's just something I got used to doing when I reloaded duck and goose loads when I was a kid and I never stopped..... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  4. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    I would take care with lubricating wads. Proper powder ignition requires some minimum amount of resistance to initial wad column movement. Most of the resistance is from the crimp, but some of the resistance is from the friction of the wad against the interior of the hull. Lighter shot loads with a slower burning powder is where the issue of not enough initial resistance usually shows up. When 800X first came out there were many 12 gauge 1 oz loads listed in the DuPont manual. They quickly removed most of them from the next edition of the manual because these loads could be very inconsistent. It took a deep crimp in once-fired hulls for these loads to work correctly.


    Most of the initial resistance with the .410 is from wad to hull friction.
    Several years ago, I did an experiment with AA .410 hulls to see how much muzzle speed is lost with worn out crimps. Interesting thing was that very little muzzle speed was lost as the crimps wore out. As long as there was enough crimp left to keep the shot in, the muzzle speed was fine. Of course at this point the hulls start "rifling".

    Michael Goines
     
  5. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the lead. I have tons of Claybuster wads that stress my wad guide so that I've gone through several wad guides. Tried baby powder but that doesn't help much.


    Now maybe I can use those Claybusters that have been in my basement for years.

    Being a plastics engineer by trade, I had to laugh at Claybuster's excuse as to why they would not replace those wads...HA!

    milt

    milt
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I am quite curious about this question but I will not try dry lubing wads until I see some sound data.

    Michael Goines- Are you sure about the crimp producing the most resistance to the expanding powder? What about the weight of the shot and the expanding cup of the wad over the powder?

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    If YOU think it helps, then it helps.

    I can't see any point in adding another procedure to the reloading process for a minuscule gain, if any really does exist. I've never found any wad that was so hard to load that I had to dry lube it just to get through the loader and into the hull or add lube to get some of the shot out of the barrel a few percentage points faster.

    MK
     
  8. CharlesR1100

    CharlesR1100 TS Member

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    Where do you buy Motor Mica? Does it affect the powder in contact with the base of the wad?
     
  9. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Pat,

    In my AA .410 tests I would say, yes the wad-hull friction contributes much more of the initial resistance than the crimp. I tested hulls with only one petal left in the crimp, all the petal was doing was keeping the shot in the hull until I could shoot it across the chronograph. The muzzle speed falloff, compared to a once-fired hull, was only 25-30 fps. That is not to say that the weight of the shot and gas seal do not have any impact, just that the crimp becomes less important, and that I would not want to reduce the hull wad to hull friction my adding a lubricant.

    The larger the gauge the more effect crimp seems to have. By the time you get to the 12 gauge it appears the crimp contributes most of the initial resistance. Muzzle speed and SD variations can become substantial as the crimp become soft. Here again, there are load combinations ie. relatively light shot charges with relatively slower burning powders and "hot" primers, that I would not want to reduce the wad-hull friction by introducing a lubricant.

    Michael Goines
     
  10. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    CharlesR1100... You can purchase Motor Mica from Precision Reloading 800.223.0900. It has not shown to have any effect on the powder.

    I have used it for many, many years and find it to be very easy to apply and use. No extra work to just dump the wads in a bag with the Mica and "shake and bake" so to speak. How much extra work is that? Not as much as tossing a bunch of Windjammers into the dryer to open up the petals....eh? And Yes, I DO think it makes a difference, and that's what counts to me. That's why I do it... Dan
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Dan, You stated that Motor Mica "has not shown to have any effect on the powder". Could you tell us how that was tested and possibly provide some data from the tests?

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like another answer searching for a problem.
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Motor Mica may ease the insertion of the wad into the hull, but it certainly does not do any of the other things claimed for it. It does not reduce plastic fouling in the barrel. It does not increase velocity. It does make a bit of a mess, and it is harmful to breath in the dust. It gets on your hands, and is promptly transferred to whatever you touch next (reloader, face, etc.).

    The only use I have for the stuff is to lubricate shot. If you have old shot that is a little "oxidized", a LITTLE bit of Motor Mica can keep it from bridging in your loader. If you rolled the shot around to knock off the "oxidation", then use graphite or this stuff to relube. Just remember a little goes a long, long way.
     
  14. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Pat......... I got my information directly from Precision Reloading some years ago when I purchased a couple cans of it. As Steve says, it is a bit messy, but, I use so little it's of no consequence to me. As for breathing it, I don't make a habit of doing that either. I read the label and follow the instruction and precautions regarding this, as well as any other product I use. Simply put in plastic bag, shake, and dump the wads into the wad dispenser. After reloading, I always wash my hands to remove any lead or Mica residue. While this may not be for everyone, it has worked for me for a lot of years and I will continue to use it for just that reason.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  15. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent!! Finally a solution to that strenuous wad insertion force. Any thoughts on KY jelly (avoiding the powder cup of course)?
     
  16. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    If it isn't broken, why are we fixing it? White powdered mica can have mild abrasive qualities, like when it is used in toothpaste. I don't know if I'd want to introduce something into the mix if it isn't needed, especially if there is little or no information supporting it. As a lubricant when sizing metallic cartridge case necks, I can understand it's use. Lubricating wads does not seem as important or necessary.
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Dan- If you like it that is fine. It could help; however, I have a problem accepting a statement that it will not affect powder from the person who is trying to sell me the stuff. That might not be a totally unbiased opinion.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking that you could most likely get the same result from using plain old powdered graphite.

    True you would have to wear latex gloves to handle the wads and you wouldn't want to touch anything else will using the stuff but THAT wouldn't have any effect on the powder.

    MK
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    MK- Powder is coated with graphite. The thickness of the graphite coating can affect burning rate but the slight additional graphite from the wad base would probably make at best an insignificant difference.

    There must be adequate friction between the wad and the wad guide collar to push it plastic wad guide fingers into the top of the hull. With a wad lube, the wad could get pushed through the plastic fingers before they are pushed down into the hull.

    Also, a powdered wad lube would get into the coffee cup that is on my reloading bench. If the lube got into my gut, it might speed up the movement of material through my GI tract and require an interruption in my reloading time.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    There was an extensive examination of the effect of limp cases and crimp depth in the latest trapshooter magazine.
     
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