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Question about Flinching

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Chango2, Nov 3, 2008.

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  1. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Question about Flinching, Archery and Trapshooting

    Perhaps Ms. Recurvyarcher has an insight; I have a hunch she knows how to shoot bow and arrow. I have a hypothesis that some flinching is caused by a shooter looking for a very precise sight picture. If the picture is a bit off, but good enough to break a target, the shooter regroups and can't take the shot. I assume this happens only to the good and experienced shooter. It will happen with release and pull; a bit like test anxiety??

    Archers, I'm told get this. They can't release the arrow trying for a perfect shot. It's called, I believe, the "yips"...Archery coaches have a training cycle, so I'm told, to get out of the archers' flinch, a "yip" by having the archer shoot at something impossible to center, something very small.

    Now taking this to shotgunning; perhaps the flinching shooter could take his/her trapgun onto a sporting clays course and shoot at the smallest and fastest targets...targets that are only seen for a glimpse. Or, alternately, gun club permitting, have a friend shoot to one's left and the person working to cure the flinch is told to shoot at chips. This may be best at mid to fence yardage.

    Perhaps my hypothesis is hairbrained, perhaps it may work for some or many. I'd appreciate any input re. this hairbrained idea.

    Thanks,

    David
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I believe there are several different causes of a flinch and there are several different types of flinching. Flinching is a learned reflex. If a flinch is caused by not seeing the target well, changing the gun fit will not help get rid of the flinch. But if the flinch is caused by poor gun fit, getting new glasses and seeing the target well will not help the flinch.

    I would flinch a lot with a pull trigger on the trap line. I rarely flinch with my release triggers. I can shoot skeet with a pull trigger and rarely flinch. I I use a wall chart, or just mount my gun and snap it on an empty chamber, I flinch.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I flinch with a .22 rimfire using shotshells on cabbage butterfly hunts!!
     
  4. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    I also flinch driving any jive sporty car with a heavy gas pedal and fast tip in. Ever drive a G35?? Absurd throttle. Road and Track feels the same way...might have to go to a release throttle.

    But...is there any parallel to archery flinch and shotgun flinch by looking for a too refined sight picture??? Inquiring minds again..
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    oleolliedawg- Are you seeing the butterflies clearly? Don't look at the cabbage. You might try a lighter, low velocity bullet.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Can some one define flinching for me? I was under the impression that I was flinching when the gun kicked the sh%# out of me when I pulled the trigger. It got so bad that I can only shoot light loads out of the gun with out pulling my face off the stock when I shoot. Actualy closed my eyes as I pulled the trigeer in anticipation of the pain
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat, I'm sure others might believe it's necessary to be custom fitted by a professional stockfitter to eliminate this flinch. Can anyone recommend a professional fitter that will make a 3/8" offset stock for a Remington 572 pump? How 'bout a release trigger for this rifle as that solution sure works in my K-80!!
     
  8. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Before I used Sports Hypnosis to overcome my (horrible) flinch, I thought too much about the consequences of pulling the trigger. I would touch the trigger, but not hard enough to fire the shot. I would stop, lose my focus, realize it was not a gun problem, then try to regroup (usually without success) and force the shot.

    Was my sight picture right? Was my timing right? Was I going to hit the target?

    WAS I GOING TO MISS THE TARGET? HOW HARD WAS THE GUN GOING TO KICK?

    During the self hypnosis sessions, I remembered to trust my reflexes like I had done for decades.

    The sight picture was going to be right. The timing was right. I was NOT going to miss the target. If I did, the world would continue as before! Recoil was not going to be a factor.

    Even if age and health issues reared their ugly head, and I could not BUY a 25, this was going to be fun again.

    The flinch went away. Now, as in years past, I often have no concious memory of pulling the trigger. Once I do my pre shot routine of mount, bead reference, hold and focal points, I go on auto pilot.

    Trying to get the thinking, or cognitive part of the brain, to manage the shot is not the key to success.

    There is a monumental difference between thinking about the target while it in flight as opposed to focusing on the target and trusting your reflexes.
     
  9. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Wholeheartedly agree. A light and crisp trigger makes the whole shooting process, at least for me, so much more automatic...it just happens if my eye locks onto the target properly. Then shooting is fun. A heavy trigger, or a varying trigger, makes me either shoot behind the target or flinch. I've regrouped after flinching and hit too many targets about three feet off the ground this week. So I sent trigger in for tuning. It's a great trigger, I allow it that need for tuning since it has ten years of use on it. Gun came used to me.

    If I still flinch, or if the trigger doesn't give me what I expect out of a pull trigger, I'll simply go to a release. But when the trigger was A-OK, I didn't flinch.

    Ah...it's the little things. I brought up my initial question 'cause a friend, who is an accomplished shooter, has developed a flinch with both pull and release. I suspect he is such a precise shooter and person that he may have something analagous to the "yips" that accomplished archers get. Just a hypothesis. Devi Recurvey, if you read this, can you weigh in with your opinion?

    BTW, a couple of other thoughts: Best trigger I ever tried was on a Ljutic Space Gun. Amazing. Other thought: Suppose hammer release was done via cobalt magnets vs. sear and trigger? I bet the pull could be oh so tunable and consistent. Any engineers out there? Are there not contemporary "super magnets" that would allow easy tuning of the trigger and long term reliability?

    Inquiring minds want to know, and as PBB aptly states, "all good"...

    Thanks.
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    oleolliedawg- With some auto body filler and duck tape, I can fit your 588 with a precision fit stock. Also, a little file work on the sear will make the gun fire when you close the action long before you have a chance to flinch.

    What color lens is best for butterflies?

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Pat, here in California most butterflies are orange and black. I mistake them for KTM motorcycles sometimes...then I really flinch.
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat, I seem to have better luck hitting all white butterflies. This must be related to some event in the past when my brain remembers shooting at those yellow dome targets back in the 60's. Unfortunately my flinching has progressed to the point I nearly shot myself in the toe on the third flinch while attempting a shot on a very nasty yellow driver.

    I will however take your suggestion of a lens color change very seriously and I am patiently awaiting their emergence again next Summer to test your theory extensively!!
     
  13. Recoil Problems

    Recoil Problems TS Member

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    Does Sports Hypnosis make a CD for trap shooters I can't find it on their site.
     
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