1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Question about angles of clays thrown

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Porcupine, Oct 12, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Porcupine

    Porcupine Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    South Central Massachusetts
    The ATA rule book states that the minimum legal angle of a thrown clay is 17 degrees left and right of center, or 34 degrees of arc, and that the maximums are an additional ten degrees of arc on either side. The rules also state that "a standard Model 1524 trap should not be set in less than the #2 hole". So does this imply that the '#2 hole' throws a clay within a 34-degree arc? Or could this mean that, if a Standard Model 1524 trap is used, there is a different minimum angle allowed under the rules? What about the #3 hole? Does anyone know what the degree of arc is for the #3 hole? Keep it clean. Thanks.

    LA in MA
     
  2. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,901
    Location:
    FL
    #3 hole will generally throw targets wider than suggested but within the allowed additional angles. #2 will consistantly throw angles no wider than those suggested. Were the wider angles wanted solely to keep scores lower and make shoot-offs easier for shoot management?

    Personally, I have enough trouble hitting #2 hole targets yet many of the places I shoot throw #3 hole birds. If this sport is to grow, newcommers should feel good about thier efforts and scores. Throw too hard a target and they will become discouraged and perhaps decide trap is not for them. Lets face facts. How many of us can consistantly shoot 100 straight even with 2 hole targets? Not me. Marc
     
  3. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    I started shooting Trap in 1961 when the Winchester Model 1524 was by far the standard machine for throwing targets. Hole 2 is basically a maximum left angle appears as a straight away from 1/2 way between Posts 4 and 5 and a maximum right angle appears as a straight away from 1/2 way between Posts 1 and 2. Hole 3 targets would appear as a straight away from Post 1 and Post 5. This Hole 3 versus Hole 2 argument has been discussed several times and Hole 2 is the standard for today and will NOT be changed back in my lifetime for sure. For modern automatic traps the GMV Superstar simulates the 1524 with actual Holes 2 and 3 where the Pat Traps are set for windage by the position of micro-switches. I shot many Hole 3 targets in the early days and I have no fear of them and I actually prefer them because I think they are more challenging.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    I agree with Mike. The current feelings toward even higher scores and averages are on the minds of a few delegates. Going back to a system that worked so well for so many years is out of the question, just like our country's governing policies, it ain't changing back too much either??

    Hap
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Way I see it, the old 3 hole target falls within the tolerances given.

    What am I missing.
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    Hole 3 targets are legal in ATA and in PITA and any club that wants to throw them may do so.
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,229
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    You guys are right about the settings that are legal. What club operator in his right mind would throw a more difficult target and expect anyone to show up? That addendum to the width rule was put in place by some very slick operators themselves??

    They also put in place a, "not less than" portion also but that rule has also been violated??? It damn sure has as well as the height setting rule!!

    Hap
     
  8. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,923
    "Hole 3 targets are legal in ATA and in PITA and any club that wants to throw them may do so."

    And any club that does for a registered shoot will find the sign-ups in the negative numbers. ATA shooters will never allow the holy / wholly meaningless average to be threatened.

    AND - it has been my observation, and I may be wrong on this, that Pat traps throw far fewer angled targets than would be expected in an average sense. I have shot traps that were nothing more than straights from Sta3 - the ultimate ATA ideal one supposes.

    I have recently started shooting skeet. I am surprised to report that even the wimpy American game of skeet is more challenging than ATA trap. Hard to think of anything nastier than that to say about ATA trap.
     
  9. Porcupine

    Porcupine Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    South Central Massachusetts
    The original question was not intended to dredge up the Hole-2 vs Hole-3 debate. I apologize for any inferral otherwise. I'm attempting to set a PAT Trap using trigonometry (the Law of Cosines).

    So, based on the above discussion, the arc of oscillation for the 'Hole-2' setting is 34 degrees and the arc of oscillation for the 'Hole-3' setting is 54 degrees? I just need the exact numbers for my calculations. Many thanks.

    LA in MA
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,848
    44 degrees, Porcupine, for the 3 hole. 34 for the two hole.

    Neil
     
  11. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,640
    Neil has the correct info. Ross Puls
     
  12. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Indiana
    I shot lots of targets at 1½ hole, the club drilled an extra hole in the handset trap. Got my butt kicked at real trap clubs till I figured out why.
     
  13. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,474
    When I joined the ATA in "87" all of the clubs I shot at in MA threw 3 hole targets which was the recommended setting in the rule book at the time. I am 67 now and most of the shooters I shoot with on a regular basis are older than I. That means we all started shooting when 3 hole was the norm and we all stayed with the game. Why would new shooters who never shot trap be afraid of a 3 hole equivalent target? THey would have no idea that it wasn't the way it should be. That said I don't care what the angle is as long as all registered shoots throw the same target within reasonable limits. 10 degrees difference in included angle is not reasonable. However as someone stated above some clubs are now reducing the angle to less than 34 degrees. What's next, one hole, then straightaways only? I likely would still not be able to break 200 but the more difficult game of Sporting Clays/5-Stand has grown at the expense of Trap and Skeet while being a lot more difficult game. I just don't understand the opposition for going back to what made TRap so popular back in the 50's, 60's and 70's when many if not most of us started shooting Trap. JRM
     
  14. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,199
    Location:
    West Clarksville, NY
    The 'dawg will be here any minute now...
     
  15. Porcupine

    Porcupine Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    South Central Massachusetts
    Thank you, Neil.

    LA in MA
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.