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Questioing a shooting coach

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bodybuilder, Aug 4, 2011.

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  1. bodybuilder

    bodybuilder TS Member

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    On the outdoor channel last night there was a man that was a clay target shooting instructor. He was teaching people how to shoot sporting clays. One man ask was there any advantage using a 12ga instead of a 20ga? He said no, He said in the right hands the 20 would do every thing the 12 would, and that might be true but if shooting a 12 is not an advantage then why do all the winning trapshooters all shoot 12's why does the U.S.A. olympic team all shoot 12ga? I have to think it holds an advantage
     
  2. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    YOu don't have to know anything to get on tv, you must know somebody.
     
  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I regularly shoot sporting with a guy that does much better with a 20/28 than he does a 12. He is just a natural with a subgage gun. He's an 80/100 shooter with a 12ga and can shoot the same course with his 20ga and break 86/100. He even shoots light loads in he 12 ga so recoil is about the same.

    If they course they were shooting on was a "up close and personal" kind of course, then I'd say the instructor was 100% correct.

    ss
     
  4. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    I've not shot sporting a lot but when I have those 50-90 yd crossers were nearly impossible for a heavy load of 7 1\2's in a full choke 12. With less shot they must be really good. Sometimes I think the sporty guys just enjoy missing so a perfect score is not the goal. But that's just me and no insult to sporty guys, I'm a trap guy and perfect is my goal.
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    50-90 yard crossers here are the exception and not the rule. 90% of the shots taken on the courses I have shot are 35 yards and less. They are a lot more technical with small shooting windows and at your feet presentations.

    90 yard crossers are what I refer to as school bus shots. That's because you have to lead them that much to get a break.

    ss
     
  6. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    There is no ballistic difference between 1oz out of a 12ga and 1oz out of a 20ga if both are the same speed. The benefit of the 12ga is you can load 1 1/8oz.
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Rastoff

    The 12 patterns much better, especially at range.
     
  8. Mark425

    Mark425 TS Member

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    I agree with the TV guys too some extent. MOST recreational sporting courses are easily shot with 20 or even 28 ga. 95% of the targets are well within 35 yards and showing lots of face. With a 12, you might pick up an additional target or two at most on these ranges, especially if you are a novice or average shooter. Tournament level layouts are something different and then a 12 ga has a definite advantage. Many targets are well outside 35 yards and with more on edge targets. Then you need as many pellets and energy as you can get. So.... TV guy is right when it comes to recreational shooters on recreational courses. My 2 cents
     
  9. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    I've heard people say that a 12ga patterns better than a 20ga. If that is so, why is there no proof of this? If you believe it, why do you believe it?

    If it is because, "The targets break better with a 12ga", then I submit that your evidence is suspect. However, the proper tools exist to do the testing. I don't own a 20ga, but I have in the past.

    Here's the test that will answer the question:

    Take a 20ga and a 12ga. Use 1oz @ 1200FPS loads. Shoot at least 10 patterns from each gun at distances of 20, 30 and 40 yards (60 total patterns). Analyze the patterns with quality statistical software. Then show us your work. I submit that there will be no significant difference.

    One pattern from each gun is not enough. Just looking at the pattern with the naked eye is not enough. I'll bet that no one here will actually do it. Conjecture and supposition is fun on an internet forum, but it doesn't answer the question.
     
  10. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Neil?.....
     
  11. K-EIGHTY

    K-EIGHTY Member

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    1 1/8 oz. #8's have approx. 60 more pellets than 1 oz. If that's not an advantage, I don't know what is. One of the perennial all-americans was asked why he shoots 1 1/8 oz. loads, and his answer was "because 1 1/4 oz. loads are illegal."
     
  12. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    A guy who taught our sctp class last year did some research on "skeet" scores.. the highest scores were from either 20 or 28 gauge cant remember which one.. 12 gauge came in 3rd folowed by 410. the comparisons were made from top winnng guys shooting the same guns with tubes for all gauges... this pretty much takes the variances out I would think.. I have only shot trap once with a 28, it was at sparta last year, I had rem 1100, one of the loaner guns, my score was not much different if not a bird better than with my 12.. a 23 or 24 iirc.. I shot several thousand 7/8 12's last year and a few hundred 1 1/8's also.. score no different.. smoke is better with the 1 1/8
     
  13. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    A patterning board will not illustrate the ballistic efficiency of a particular gauge, given the effect "shot stringing. A long narrow shell such as a .410 is not as efficient as say a 28 Ga. throwing the same amount of shot (if that were possible). I once heard from a skeet shooter who shot all gauges that the 28 Ga. was the most efficient of all the modern configuration. I don't know where he got that information.
     
  14. bodybuilder

    bodybuilder TS Member

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    I still want to know why if there is no advantage... Go and count how many 20 gauges on the line at the grand?
     
  15. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    targetmaster,

    The answer to your question is simple. The 12ga is more popular. Why? Some of it is myth and some of it is truth. The 12ga is a heavier gun. This makes it a better tool to shoot as many rounds as Trap shooters do. Then there are more load options. I suppose you could load 1 1/8oz into a 20ga shell, but I've never seen anyone do it. And, you can only buy 1oz factory shells in 20ga.

    Is a 1 1/8oz load better for Trap? The truth is irrelevant to this subject because most Trap shooters believe it is better, they buy more 1 1/8oz shells. Thus, the 12ga is voted for with consumer money.

    And, due to the heavier gun, the same 1oz load will recoil less in a 12ga.

    So, there you have it. The 12ga wins on several levels and none of them have to do with the pattern.
     
  16. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Any shell that allows the shooter to keep his/her face on the gun for "Each And Every Shot" time and time again will break more targets for this shooter!!! Since most targets are lost by shooting behind them (no matter what game you shoot) does it make any difference if I'm shooting a l/2 oz load of shot or a 2 oz load of shot??? Both will still be behind the target no matter how many oz.'s I shoot and the target will still be called lost. Just some food for thought. Break-em all. Jeff

    But Do Try the 28 ga. Just a pleasure to shoot. Like I've said before breaks targets like a 12 ga. and kicks like a 410 bore.
     
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