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Quest Re Reloading New Win AA

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dbart1948, Mar 1, 2010.

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  1. dbart1948

    dbart1948 Member

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    Picked up a handful of once fired new Winchester AA's. These are both the red, and the gray.

    On a MEC 9000G, used 21 grains of PB, Winchester 209 primers, and Winchester AA wads.

    Problem - Loads are buckling. I cannot seem to seat the wad down fully into the empty hull. An examination of the reload is that the wad is getting hung up on the inner portion of the hull (two piece construction). Any thoughts or ideas?

    Thanks

    Dave
     
  2. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I just loaded over 100 of those with 22.0 Grs. of PB-same wad-Federal primer on a Spolar. No issues!!
     
  3. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    Why are you seating the wad in an empty hull? I think you have more component volume than will work....too much powder....too much lead....wrong AA wad???? 1 ounce wad with 1 1/8 ounce shot?? Too much pressure at finish crimp (last station)??
     
  4. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    Yeah have to same problem with other wads but not AA wads. I usually have to pour the shot back out and with my finger lift the wad up a little then twist as I'm pushing it back down. I hear a "click" as it goes past the base wad.
    It's a pain but since I went to AA wads, no problems or I should say less problems. Downrange and B&P always stuck. Have fun. Dave T.
     
  5. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you need more wad pressure!With the type and brand of wad you are using it should work.I had problems like your's with the downrangs wads so I quit using the NEW AAHS hull!!See what you get with the remington hulls. I bet you stick with the remington hulls!!PJ
     
  6. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    I had the same problem when I switched from the Claybuster pink 1 oz wad (CB 1100-12) to the Claybuster Lightning (CB4100-12B) wad. Turns out the problem was that the Lightning does not have a "lead-in taper" of the base, which causes it to frequently hang up on the lip of the inner base wad of the HS AA cases.

    The pink wad has a beveled base, so there is almost never a problem with hanging up or cocking.

    Kiv
     
  7. JLSIMON

    JLSIMON Member

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    Before you do anything else, lower the Pre-crimp until you can't stick a pencil
    eraser in the opening. You need to get the shell opening bent over pretty good so the final crimp doesn't buckle it. The plastic is stiff and alot of pressure to close it up will buckle them about half way up the shell or just above the wad cup. Your crimp depth could be too low too for all the stuff you're trying to cram in the hull. Maybe try Claybusters AA clone as well and see if your problem goes away. Good luck.

    Jim
     
  8. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Usually lowering the crimp starter and backing off a little on the crimp die cam will alleviate the problem. Give MEC a call and they will walk you through it. They do this every day.
     
  9. #1steve

    #1steve TS Member

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    As was stated before, just use remington hulls, and eliminate the problem. The newer dark grey AA hulls suck, Winchester doesnt want you reloading, they want you to buy new shells.
     
  10. WarEagle2017

    WarEagle2017 Active Member

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    all good suggestions above here is another one: I have two machines a 366 Hornady and a Mec grabber, the circumference of the primer knock out punch is a little too large on the Mec, when it pushes the old primer out sometimes it slightly picks up the plastic base wad in the double A Hulls and moves it upward ( I had it pull one wad completely out, It was stuck to the primer punch ) So if it is Winchesters Idea to have you only buy new shells, they will get there wish, ONLY I will be buying STS Or Nitro 27's they load beautifully,why mess with Winchester nothing but problems and I have thousands of then, they don't close right either and i have to burn a candle and drip a little wax on the open hole
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    AA hulls are fine. There was a problem several years ago and Winchester quietly took care of it. The new AA hulls do require the final crimp die to be raised a little bit.

    drhuner was able to raise the base wad on the two piece AA hulls with his primer punch. Several of us have not been able to do that with large screws, drill bits and big punches when the hull has been cut off at the brass and the head held in a vice. He must have a very powerful primer punch. One poster was able to remove the base wad by cutting off the brass just in front of the rim. I have not tried that yet.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    I have cut both new and old AA hulls apart lengthwise, and it really appears that the newer 2 piece huls have the base wads fused together with the outer piece. I can't get a new xacto blade under the base wad on any I have cut apart. Maybe this changes when they are fired several times.

    Also the plastic portion of the hull is complely burried inside the rim of the case making it difficult to come free. I realize there are anomilies during a production run, but I would think they would be the exception rather than the rule.

    Also the base wad has a significant bevel on the top edge so the wad should enter smoothly regardless unless the base wad is separated from the hull outer.

    my.02

    Randy
     
  13. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    With 21 grains you will be clearly above the ridge line and wont be a issue. I would say you have another issue with the loader settings rather than hull and wad combo. I have noticed issue only with ultra light loads on the newer hulls.
     
  14. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Would it be fair to say that as Pat stated that there was a problem and that the hulls that people are having problems with are in fact the problem hulls prior to the quiet fix???I have saved 1000's of hulls and I had so many problems with the new AAHS hull that I gave up on them.Now that Pat has pointed this out I will get some of these newer ones and try them out.If they work I will post a thread about how Winchester redeemed themselves.If not it will still depend on the type of loader and components that one uses in order to make the AAHS hull work.One thing for sure is that I don't see ANY complaints about the Nitro and STS hulls.PJ
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    In order to help save the environment and our planet I will accept all those faulty AA HS hulls for proper disposal-you pay the shipping.

    Biggest complaint I have about STS hulls is AA's are much prettier!!
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    poacherjoe- With the new AA hulls you have to raise the final crimp stating about one turn to keep from bulging the side of the shells. Some have also found it helpful to lower the crimp starter about one turn. Unfortunately, you cannot set up your reloader for one brand of shell and expect it to be right for every other brand.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Pat: Thanks for the advice.But I have already tried all those suggestions.I have 4 PW loaders.3 800-B and a C some have the tru crimp and some don't.I can start with the AAHS hull and put out perfect crimps and shells and then the bulge comes out of the blue.
    This happens on each loader.Another problem with these hulls that I have is I use the downrange jammer wads and what I have found is that when you seat the wad it sticks at the base wad and then the wad compresses at it's cushion and it springs back up at the next station.This happens quite alot BUT when you use the claybuster W12SL wad it stay's down!Then you still have the possibility of the bulge occuring.
    From what I can see the wads have a different texture.The DR wad is a harder "less forgiving plastic" and the CB wad is "more forgiving".You also have to make the adjustment for the crimp which is different from the red to gray hull.I took my stockpile of AAHS hulls to my buddy that has a spolar loader and loaded them all up for the last time.

    Now if winchester has fixed this problem I will find out shortly.I still have 2,000 of the old style AA's but the plastic is old and they are only good for 3-4 loads now.When they were the Cat's meow I could load them 10 or more times.

    Then Winchester comes out with the hull that was supposed to be better and it came up short.Way to many issues for me.Like I said before it depends on what type of loader and components one uses.If I load them on a spolar or mec or a 366 they work with little or no problems but on my PW's and my components they do not.

    So I can get all the Remington hulls I want for free so this solves the problem!If I use the old style AA's I can mix them with the STS's with no problem's.When they first came out and the problems started a Winchester Rep was asked what they would do to fix this problem for the reloaders and he said that the reloaders made up such a small percentage in sales that they basically did not care.Anyhow I will try the NEW AA hull again and see if they work for me.Have a nice day PJ
     
  18. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    My AA HS hulls loaded with 20gr AmSel, W209, CB 8118s, 1 1/8 #8 load just fine on my 650.



    Guy Babin
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    PJ- I don't know what to say. The red and gray AA hulls have the same internal capacity and I don't see how they can load differently. I had the same problem you described using my PW loader. After the crimp adjustment, the problem went away. I only use Winchester and Claybuster wads.

    When I stated that winchester had "fixed the problem" I was referring to the basewad getting lose after many reloads.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. snglfoot

    snglfoot Member

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    I have had trouble with the gray AA's not complely closing (leave opening shot can fall out), using the same components in the red AA and there is no problem, they close up tight. ??????
    So I just use the gray's for practice w/reclained shot.
    Norman
     
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