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PW-AA buckling

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DadPlus4, Mar 6, 2013.

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  1. DadPlus4

    DadPlus4 Member

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    I'm getting 5/100 shells that are buckling/squishing about midway thru the hull.
    Open the shell and the wad is fine.
    I've tried a few adjustments on crimp/taper but haven't found the sweet spot.
    Facts:
    PW 850 w/autodrive
    AA-HS 1 1/8 - CB AA clones
    17.5-18 Red Dot

    Just curious if anyone else came across this or a symptom of the hull construction.

    Thx
     
  2. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    Curious if these are once fired or multiple times?
     
  3. sharhope

    sharhope Member

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    The hull wall on the newer grey and red AA hulls are really thin I have no problems with Remington hulls-thicker wall
     
  4. kcbullets

    kcbullets Member

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    I load on a PW800+ and haven't had any issues with the AA HS hulls, 12 ga. I am also using the auto drive.
     
  5. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    What's a PW 850 (other than the price for the 800+)?
     
  6. Shoot n Holler

    Shoot n Holler Active Member

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    Are you using the new wads with the taper leads for the new style. The older verison will not have the taper on them. Check CB web site.
     
  7. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"Are you using the new wads with the taper leads for the new style..."</i></blockquote>That's not a big deal...I use regular DR wads for AA HS hulls and get no buckling in my PW 900s. I DO get buckling when I load AA hulls in a Lee Load-All because the sides of the hull doesn't get any support. The poly the AA hulls are made of is harder to crimp well. That's why I asked what a PW 850 was. I never heard of one. The 950 had short dies and didn't support the upper half of the hull; that might allow some buckling to occur. But I know people who regularly buckle AA hulls in PWs because they are using excessive crimp pressure trying to close the hole in the center of the crimp. The buckling is occurring where the crush section of the wad is; there is no internal support for the hull there. A smooth cone crimp starter gathers plastic differently from the 8 point starter so a good crimp requires less pressure to achieve. Less crimp pressure = less chance of buckling.

    Keller
     
  8. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    First check to see if the length of the wad is the same as the factorys from the botton to the wad to the bottom of the shot cup.

    How deep is your crimp? Could it be set too deep.

    Also too much taper on the nose will cause the shell to wrinkle at the position you described.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    More wad pressure-enough to put a kink in the wads collapsible section. New style AA's have less case capacity in some batches and the issue is more prone to happen with bulkier powders like Red Dot!!
     
  10. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    Excessive crimp preasure. Keep backing that off until u cant get a good crimp then brung back down.
     
  11. northern mist

    northern mist TS Member

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    I had this problem with my MEC single stage. I went up on wad pressure, and backed off the crimp station. Seems to have helped, however, I am reluctant to continue using the AA hulls from here out. It seems some wads tend to hang on the lip of the base.
     
  12. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Some causes are:<BR>

    1. Wrong wad for the components being stuffed into the hull.<BR>
    2. Broken Wad Guide Finger (letting wad cup clip top of hull as it enters the hull).<BR>
    3. Worn out Wad Carrier Cam Bolt (does not swing the Wad Carrier completely over the hull, letting #2 above happen).<BR>
    4. Recommend raising the wad ram so that the wad is not seated so deeply, and then let the Final-Crimp station seat it to a proper height.<BR>

    Since you are getting this intermittently, the Cam Bolt comes to mind, because if you pull the Operating Handle fast enough, the momentum will move the wad carrier far enough to NOT get the clipped wad.

    You must use the correct wad for the application. I see this often that a particular wad (will not mention manufacturer) has a different height of shot cup which is too high. This, then, causes the internal compression to be too much for the hull and you get the "buckling" effect.


    whizwhite_2008_0203336.jpg


    Have you disassembled a bad reload to inspect the wad?

    WW
     
  13. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    The OP wrote in his lead post, <blockquote><I>"I'm getting 5/100 shells that are buckling/squishing about midway thru the hull. Open the shell and the wad is fine."</i></blockquote>

    Keller
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    The wad being "fine" may be the problem!!
     
  15. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    The wad isn't the problem, it doesn't exert pressure on the hull walls. The original poster says he is using a AA clone. A large number of wads are Win based designs anyway. They are made for AA's.

    Back off completely on the taper. Taper will buckle the hulls, it exerts pressure straight down on the hull walls. I haven't had a AA buckle since I backed off completely on the taper and I use a variety of wads. I load AA's predominatly .
     
  16. DadPlus4

    DadPlus4 Member

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    thanks all. my typo on the original - it's an 800+, and yes once-fired grey to be specific.
    i'll back off on the taper on my next session.

    thx-
     
  17. jimctrap

    jimctrap Member

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    oleolliedod got it right had the same problem loading win.super targets
    increased wad pressure no more problems
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    jimctrap, you can lead a horse to water but can't make 'em drink. Interior capacity of AA's can vary and often are cut a bit shorter or longer. Get a batch of some cut a bit shorter with a bulky powder like RedDot and a few will buckle. Add wad pressure to put a bit of kink in the wad and the possibilities of buckling are lessened!!
     
  19. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Ollie, How does the wad cause the hull to buckle? The wad pushes against the bottom of the hull, not the sides. The crimp die puts a fixed amount of pressure on the hull walls, how does the wad increase that pressure?
     
  20. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    I bought a used 800+ a few years back and had to re-adjust everything. I ran it for a summer by hand before I even hooked up the hydraulics.

    I found that no wad pressure or enough wad pressure to kink the wad would still allow too much nose taper to kink the shell where DadPlus4 described. I ended up setting up the machine with NO wad pressure and kept backing off the nose taper until the kink would disappear. That may not be the only fix but it was the one that worked for me. Now the only problems I have is with the cost and availability of components.

    Once you have the machine setup how you like it you will really enjoy its performance. Just remember its a machine, it needs to be cleaned and lubed on a regular basis just like ALL other reloaders.

    Bill
     
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