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PW 900 size-o-matic-help

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by DENNISMASTROLIA1, Jun 8, 2010.

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  1. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    I have a problem with a PW 900 (hydraulic) that drives me crazy.The base at times will not rotate to the next shell causing a "clean-up" on aisle three!!! I shut off the powder/shot and primer feed and tried to see what the issue was. Sometimes the rotation will work o.k. for several cycles and then the rotation will stop rotating.Seems as though the black ring with the "screw" in the center of the whole thing doesn't like to come down all the way.I lubed it and checked to see that no debris was the cause but every now and then the rotation will stop.Is the screw the culprit by not engaging what it needs to engage? Please help--your help is very much appreciated.The hydraulic fluid is a little low--but the machine will cycle o.k.Thanks--Dennis.
     
  2. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Quite often the cause will be a piece of shot trapped in the grease at the bottom of the groove in the center shaft. A thorough cleaning should clear that up. While you are at it splurge about $4 to buy (from Whiz White or PW)a new screw and the bushing that rides the end of it in that groove. Lube lightly with STOS.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  3. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Is the screw bent or is the shaft bent? Should the screw be in one of the holes and is this what makes the rotation--Thanks,Dennis.
     
  4. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    I just looked at my 900. There is a steel ball that follows the cam groove in the center shaft (no pin to get bent). The ball is behind the horizontal screw in the black collar that sits above the turret. The screw should be loctited in place. Check to see if this screw is loctited in place. Do not try to turn it too hard as you will break the loctite loose. If the screw is loctited properly your problem is something else.

    The vertical screw in the collar should also be held in place with loctite. Check to see if that screw is properly retained with loctite.

    Jim Skeel

    skeeljc_2008_03032.jpg
     
  5. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Serial Number please?

    Prior to S/N 4390, the rotation was partly accomplished with a ball-bearing sitting in the main center shaft and held in place (tension) by the horizontal screw shown above. Machines with serial number greater that 4390 used a collar held in place with a different shaped screw, but still located as shown above.

    If you have an aluminum turret (most likely), I would loosen up the horizontal screw and raise the black collar. Inspect the 8 holes in the turret (and clean and regrease everything). Some turrets had the 8 indexing pin holes drilled into the aluminum and others had a hardened steel center. The latter ones could hardly be worn elongated, but the full aluminum turrets saw the elongation on the holes.

    The top vertical screw shown above in some machines did not have this screw, but a pressed-in extremely hardened pin. This pin is what drops down and into the holes in the aluminum turret or hardened center. This is what makes the turret rotate.

    In short, the hardened pin rarely wears, the holes can elongate in the 100% aluminum turret, AND the collar that rides in the long vertical groove EASILY WEARS OUT. This worn collar, a $4.50 item, can also be the culprit in difficult and stubborn rotations. Often overlooked, but extremely important.

    I was up in the storage attic trying to locate a 100% aluminum turret to photo and show you what to look for in elogated holes. I didn't find one, as I probably tossed all that were worn out, sorry.

    Whiz
     
  6. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Thank you for the outstanding pictures and for the reply.The vertical and the horizontal screws are very tight.The "housing" where both screws reside from time to time does not seem to want to go down all the way when in operation-It will stay up about a quarter of an inch and when this happens the rotation will stop.If I push it down manually then the rotation will be o.k. I have cleaned everything in sight but have not taken everything apart.What will cause the round housing to sometimes not return FULLY to the bottom of the center shaft? Could it be the bushing? Debris stuck internally. Thanks again for the great help in the mystery.I will get this done it's now a mission!!! Dennis.
     
  7. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Dennis, as Whiz asked, what is the serial number of your loader?

    Whiz, please explain the design of the "collar that rides in the long vertical groove" on loaders after S/N 4390.

    Jim Skeel
     
  8. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Whiz White. I can raise the black collar by hand.I do not need to loosen the horizontal screw to do this. Should I remove the screw? Machine #2640. Every thing else works fine. This horizontal screw that is tight--do you have a recommendation for removing it/ As well as for the vertical screw? Thanks--Dennis.
     
  9. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Dennis, by the serial number you provided your loader has the steel ball that follows the groove in the center shaft. The horizontal screw keeps the ball in the groove. The screw must adjusted so that there is a very small amount of clearance to allow the ball to roll. The screw must be loctited in place to preserve the clearance. If the screw is too tight it will not allow the ball to roll in the groove. If the horizontal screw has not been moved and it is still loctited in place I would leave it alone. If you can slide the collar up and down the celter shaft that should indicate that there is no binding of the ball in the groove. If you push the operating handle back to rotate the wad guide forward you can slide the collar all the way up and down the center shaft.

    The other area I would check is the ball detent that positions the turret at each station. Just remove the two bosses that hold the turret to the platen and you can raise the turret up. Clean the bottom of the turret and check to see that there is nothing around the ball detent on the left side of the platen.

    Jim Skeel
     
  10. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Skeeljc----I will try this asap.Many thanks Dennis.
     
  11. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    The collar looks the same as the short collar the rides in the long horizontal groove in the primer seating assembly. This collar mounts on the left end of teh bolt (axle) for either the bearing (very old 800B style), of the gray PVC wheel.
     
  12. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Whiz, this is the statement that I was asking about:

    "In short, the hardened pin rarely wears, the holes can elongate in the 100% aluminum turret, AND the collar that rides in the long vertical groove EASILY WEARS OUT. This worn collar, a $4.50 item, can also be the culprit in difficult and stubborn rotations. Often overlooked, but extremely important."

    Are you refering to loaders with S/N >4390 (but not the Grivory)??

    Jim Skeel
     
  13. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    Skeeljc--I lifted the turret and in a "groove" below I saw a ball bearing.Is this supposed to be there or did it come from someplace else?? The groove follows the circumference of the turret I think.
     
  14. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    The ball is the index stop I believe. The spring pushes it into little pockets in the underside of the turret above it at each station.

    MK
     
  15. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Dennis, The steel ball should be sitting on top of a spring in an amuminum housing on the left side of the platen. The housing that the spring and ball are in is screwed to the platen from the bottom side.

    Locate the ball and the spring and then clean (vacuum or compressed air) the top side of the platen under the turret. Clean the bottom side of the steel hub in the center of the aluminum turret and lube the eight seats that the ball mates with. Re-insert the spring in the housing and set the steel ball on top of the spring. Lower the turret and re-install the two retaining posts at the front left and right. Rotate the turret by hand checking to be sure it stops at all eight positions.

    I will take a photo of the ball and its housing later.

    Here is a photo that I had of the underside of the turret. The ball mates with the track and eight recesses in the steel center hub.

    Jim Skeel

    skeeljc_2008_030331.jpg
     
  16. DENNISMASTROLIA1

    DENNISMASTROLIA1 Active Member

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    I took apart as described above and what a mess.Crushed pellet//hardened grease and an overall dismal,filthy area.Cleaned all areas and found where the ball and spring are supposed to be.Made the area fit for surgery and returned all parts and put all back together.Did a dry run for about 35 rotations and so far the rotation is working as it should.I also prior to putting it all back together-by hand rotated the turret and felt each station stop where it was supposed to stop. I cannot thank all of you enough for the time and effort that you extended to me in this matter.You guys ROCK!!!
     
  17. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Dennis, glad things are working better. The P/W loaders are a great piece of equipment (especially the original 900's) but they do require some periodic maintenance. The area unser the turret usually falls into the out-of-sight out-of-mind category.

    Jim Skeel
     
  18. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Jim Skeel: Yes, I was referring to the aluminum turrets.

    Whiz
     
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