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PW 900 hydro dropping double shot

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by qball, Jun 11, 2007.

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  1. qball

    qball TS Member

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    I have bought this press used around two years ago. I am still learning with it, but thought I had a good understanding. The last week, I am experiencing the press dropping well over the measured load (possibly double).

    I am sure the press is indexing. I have taken the time sit and watch the press, but cannot determine where the malfunction is.

    Anyone else have any ideas. I guess I'm turning on the Whiz Batman light in the sky :)

    Cheers,

    Quade
     
  2. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    Always park the PW Press with the turret up (powder settles).

    If the powder and shot disk are indexed correctly to the actuator bar you cannot double charge powder without dropping double shot.

    If you reverse the cycle with the hydro for any reason and the actuator bar does not move you will not drop a double charge, if it does move you will.

    ....Otherwise you’re just trolling on this thread!
     
  3. Tom Ruble

    Tom Ruble TS Member

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    Does your charge bar have the proper shot/powder bushings installed? Break 'em all! Tom Ruble
     
  4. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I saw the beam...

    As mentioned above, a double charge of either will certainly be easily seen in the final crimp - if you can even get it crimped at all. You can NOT put more powder into the powder bushing for the volume is volume... you can change that!

    What machine are you using? Whose hydraulic (P/W or Spolar), and single or double cylinders?

    Usually, a double charge is caused by failing to advance the cylinder. Inconsistent drops can be caused by the manner in which you pull/push the operating handle. Smooth, not jerky...

    Unusually, powder charge variations can be the result of monkeying with the powder gear - it being out of line with the timing mark. On machines with Index Pads, especially, some feel the need to advance the timing marks so the bushings end up sitting 100% over the drop tubes. However, this is a symptom of the index pad height not being correct. Too high a pad, and the Rack Gear will not move to its full potential and the converse is also true.

    Again, wasted words here without knowing what machine and the serial number range of the machine in question.

    Could be the adjustable hydro link, rear hydro cylinder bolt setting, stub shaft setting, etc.

    Whiz White<BR>
    P/W Distributor
     
  5. qball

    qball TS Member

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    My s/n is 10574, and it is a 900 Size-o-matic. I have a PW hydro with the double cylinder setup. Oldie but goode.

    I have ran several thousand through the press, with no problems. This past week I fired it up and experienced this four or five times. I would watch the turrent rotate, everything looked fine. When I cycle the press up, it would drop enough shot to fill the cup and over flow! Definitely not crimpable. I would scoop out the extra, and cycle it through.

    I have ran this manual when I first bought it. I am no expert on it by any means, but I cannot figure out how i would drop that much shot. Also, it does not do this consistantly. I plan on cleaning the press up again (thanks for the maintenance sheets Whiz!).

    I will then sit and study this, to see if I can figure where the issue is. Thanks for the pointers so far.
     
  6. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    The double cylinder is really something I have little knowledge about.

    The double drop of shot concerns me because you should also be getting a double drop of powder as well.

    The ONLY way this can happen is if the turret (aluminum cylinder) fails to rotate after EACH cycle.

    Be careful and watchful.

    Feel free to email me direct if you need some more assistance. I have to admit that I am ignorant about the double cylinder setup. Mark Geslock, a great customer of mine in the SE, is familiar with these double cylinder setups. I can line you two up if necessary.

    Whiz
     
  7. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    If you need a manual for it, I have one I scanned that I would be happy to email you.

    Whiz
     
  8. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    Thanks for the plug...Whiz.
    I have several of the two cylinder set ups. I may have an extra one laying around.
    I have one on my 900 in 28 gauge. (Yea I know….you don't shoot trap w/a 28 gauge).

    I have not experienced any over charges with the set up.

    Have you weighed the shot to make sure it was a double charge? Could the wad be cocked or not seated overfilling the hull?

    Whiz is the expert…..
     
  9. snarepeg

    snarepeg TS Member

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    Have just had the same problem on my 800.

    This was caused by the shot bridging in the tube on one and double dropping on the next cartridge.

    The shot was mixed 7s/8s and not home pruduced, but recovered from factoy loads.

    Not had this problem before, and loaded a lot since with no more doubles on shot side.

    Havn/t had it with my home produce iether but do graphite mine. snarepeg.
     
  10. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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  11. erik_calhoun

    erik_calhoun TS Member

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    oh yea i had one of those a couple years back....funny story is it was actually my aunts who gave it to me after she died a very rare disease i dare not speak of. and i used it back in NAM.


    Ps.oh well ofcourse this all happened in my past life when i died of a freak disease called a;lk....


    POW. MIA. USMC.

    double PS....just keep on plugging
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Another thought-- If the machine has an indexing problem the wad may not get seated properly. At the next station the shot will spill over the top of the case and might appear to be a double charge but is actually a normal charge with not place to go except over the top. This can happen intermittently.

    Once the problem is diagnosed, it can easily be corrected. It is difficult for even an expert like Whiz to diagnose problems over this site.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. TOLIPNUG

    TOLIPNUG TS Member

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    I WOU8LD VENTURE TO SAY THAT THERE IS NO SHOT BUSHING INSTALLED AND THE USER IS USED TO A MEC AND DOESN'T REALIZE THAT THE HOLE REQUIRES A BUSHING-RICK ZINO
     
  14. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    qball

    Here's something you might try...... If you have some old ACTIV hulls (all plastic no brass), cut off the crimp pedals, turn off the powder drop and cycle them though you loader turning on the shot with the first one at that station but make sure you catch them when they drop through the turret.... See if you get a double shot charge this way, if not, you may have a wad problem.... If your wad is getting twisted it is time to change the wad guide, if not, then you may have an indexing problem under the turret.

    Question....Do you have an automatic shell feeder incorporated into this loader, this problem of not advancing the turret can also be associated with the shell feeder but other problems exist then also?
     
  15. qball

    qball TS Member

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    Thanks for all the great input guys!! Here is a few thoughts and findings I have:

    1. Thanks for the post on the shot bridging the tube. That is one of the possibilites I have narrowed it to. The other being me not noticing the turret index. I have been very aware of watching for that since my initial problems. (I have noticed double power in several shells also!! That confirms to me that the turret hasn't indexed.)

    2. Pat had mentionedt he wads displacing some of the shot. I had noticed that in the past. I have been bending the fingers out before inserting them if they are questionable. I'll keep an eye on that.

    3. Rick, as I had mentioned in my original post. I have several thousand good shells through this press already. The problem is intermitent. I can confirm a bushing is in the press.

    4. I like the idea of running hulls with the crimp cut off through the press. That is the one issue I have with the PW is that if there is a bad shell, or other trouble, it is difficult to remove or remedy the situation. Thanks for the pointer.

    5. I recently had a jammed shell in the first station. It really stopped the press hard. I am curious if that has broken a part, or put something out of adjustment. Everything seems to be fine, but I will go over it to confirm. The timing of this issue with the shot/powder issues seems to match up.

    Whiz, Mark, everyone thanks for the help so far. If given the choice I think I would get rid of the double cylinder for the current design. I also believe that the double cylinder does work well if adjusted and ran properly.
     
  16. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Regarding the finished shell ejection can be problematic, I simply cut a short wooden dowel and place that of the mucked-up shell to punch it out.

    An older 800B has a harder time because the entire shell is in the die, unless you have taper-crimp. In this case the dowel is almost a must to overcome the mushroom above the die.

    Whiz
     
  17. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    qball

    Here is another item that will stop your press dead.

    If you ever pick up empty hulls on the range and drop them in your pants pocket, always check to see if there are any metallic objects stuck inside them prior to dropping those hulls in your empties box. A small coin, like a dime, will play havoc with the de-priming station on a PW, especially the older ones with a solid turret.
     
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