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Purpose of new classification / special class rule

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tjwatc, Sep 7, 2009.

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  1. tjwatc

    tjwatc TS Member

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    This past weekend at the Western Grand, a sub junir shooter had the great fortune of breaking 199 / 200 in the championship singles. He was forced to take the Subjunior title INSTEAD of the B class championship under the new rule for the 2010 shooting year. Does anyone know why the ATA changed the classification rule for special class shooters. In my personal opinion why can't a Junior Female who is in A class, win either the junior title, the ladies title or the class title. Now being a male, between the age of junior and veteran, I only have one thing to shoot for ... my class. It just seems wrong to watch a sub junior who shot very well, lose out on a beautiful trophy (a Shamrock bag) which he told me he wanted ... to win the Sub junior (trophy unknown, it was not a Shamrock bag) title by 8 to 10 birds.

    Opinions and thoughts????
     
  2. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, tjwatc.
     
  3. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    If he wanted to win the big prize, he should have rolled the dice on the big table.Rules is Rules

    I must admit I do have a little sympathy for the juniors and subs but not the gals and duffers
     
  4. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Category champions are considered to be the equivalent of Event Champion. It's a level above Class or Yardage Group.

    This is evidenced by the fact that State Singles event champions and category champions are given the opportunity to shoot in the Champion of Champions event at the Grand. You'll notice that the class winners in the State Singles Championships aren't given that opportunity.
     
  5. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I shot at the Western Grand and had a great time but I did not declare Veteran. It didn't matter anyway but the new rule is stated only for shoots where All American points are awarded. My concern is that for every shoot I go to I will have to ask ahead of time what the shoot management policy is for awarding trophies to Category shooters.
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Miketmx Your ATA card should have Veteran embossed on your card, if it is not you need a new card.

    Mine is embossed VETERAN next year it will say SENIOR VET as I will turn 70.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. C E Demulling

    C E Demulling Member

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    They (the ATA) claim that winning category is worth more than winning class or a yardage place. Why then, is there usually added money for winning class or a yardage place and ZERO money for category?
     
  8. furface

    furface Member

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    I won a vet buckle in a Az handicap and it was a lot sweeter than winning a yardage group. There are some tough old timers down there. Just my 2cents. Joe
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    C E Demulling

    "Why then, is there usually added money for winning class or a yardage place and ZERO money for category?"

    CE good score are good scores,but what does added money have to do with category trophies????

    Russ25Trap

    "As you know, those places were worth money - catagory got nothing! This rule is flat out wrong. I hope you had a chance to talk to some official types when there."

    Russ you forgot to say in your opinion this rule is flat out wrong. In my opinion it isn't The way it was some category shooters had way to many to fall back on. Now they don't

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. rc38340

    rc38340 TS Member

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    i had this problem occurto me at this years grand, i had some friends classify me before i got there,after i got there i found that they did not declare i was a wheel chair shooter as was stamped on my card, so i went back to classification to have it changed and asked after declaring did need to do anything different and classification told me no. after shooting handicaps on sunday i shot a 92 the high chair shooter was a 91, thinking i had won the chair shooter award i ck the next day around 900 and was told that i was to late checking on why i hadnt won , was told at classification that the trophy was awarreded and it was to late to change even though i did beat the other chair shooters robert crouse
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    ivanhoe:

    The problem is this: Two category shooters, classified exactly alike, making exactly the same declarations, and the one shooting the better score may lose out on a trophy while the lower score wins class.

    The rule doesn't keep category shooters from winning class, just keeps that day's best category shooters from winning class.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Lets suppose we have three Juniors classified as class A in singles. Two of them tie with 100 and the third one is high in class A with a 99. One of the two with 100 will win a trophy, the other will not. The Junior with a 99 will win the class trophy with a lower score.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Russ,

    It should be noted that the programs for the two satellite Grands that just occurred were set months before this rule change was approved. Hopefully shoot management for the subsequent satellite Grands and major shoots will note the concern that you and others have expressed regarding the division of added money and make whatever changes they can to achieve a more equitable opportunity for all.


    Scott
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    missed some:

    "Added Money" very often goes with the trophy. More often than not, category trophies are not included.
     
  15. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    What is the purpose of the catagories in the first place? Sounds like left wing infiltration where everybody gets special chances at a trophy(everybody but the adult male}
     
  16. monroesc

    monroesc Member

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    We seem to forget that we are supposed to be promoting shooting. What promotes shooting more for the average Joe or Josephina then a chance to win a trophy. It is obvious that the decision was made by a group of men because it hurts young and young at heart female shooters the most. You don't see the people in chairs having to decide what category they want. They can be in chair and veteran (but not ladies too!)The EC is whinning about the hassle at shoot offs--too bad--they wanted the job, so DO THE JOB!

    God help the classifiers!! You think the lines are slow now, you have seen nothing yet! Try explaining this one so it makes sense to all the category shooters out there! Then wait as they ponder the options...and wait...and wait.

    Sara
    Ohio Director
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Russ25Trap before the rule was changed to what it is right now. A young lady in Sub Jr could fall back five different ways. Why not just let them all shoot and everyone else stay out of it.

    What ever you shoot you don't get to fall back on any thing. How many different ways can you get and award????

    As it is now the fall backs are limited not unlimited so what is the problem.

    "Now, Lady shoots one of two highest scores tied for Champion. She shoots off and loses. Now she MUST take Catagory - she just lost at least $150! That is NOT right. She paid the same price for targets as did everyone else, she should have the option of falling down into a place that earns some cash!"

    Well Russ I guess that make me a bad person but explain to me how it was fair the guy with the next best score to wait around until the category shooters get done using them for a doormat to what ever award they are finally capable of getting.

    The devil with the other guys chance at cash wait until the category shooter gets done deciding. Don't those that don't have a choice pay the same price for targets or doesn't that matter.

    We don't allow do overs in shooting targets why do you want to allow do over in selecting a trophy???????????

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Sara,

    The rule change regarding only one category per shooter applies to everybody. There are no longer "dual" categories at shoots with AA points. In your example, the shooter would declare Chair, Veteran, None, etc., but not both (or three, if they were female also.)
     
  19. monroesc

    monroesc Member

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    V10
    Copied right off the ATA website.

    “Shooters may declare only one category; i.e., lady, sub-junior, junior, veteran or senior veteran. A shooter may no longer declare, for example, lady veteran. (Note: this new rule does not apply to chairshooters.)
     
  20. glenn mcleod

    glenn mcleod Member

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    The one thing I am totally against is- because I declare VET I will never have a chance to win the Grand America Handicap, Dbls Champ or Clay Target Champ even if by some magic I were to shoot the only 100 or 200 SCORE in the event. THIS IS WRONG. If this doesn't change the last year of my 5 year parking spot is up in 2010 and I will not be renewing. I would rather go to some closer shoots. 820 miles is a long haul to not even have the dream of competing for the BIG prizes. Bad decision by someone that I'm sure felt they did the right thing. Hopefully better minds will prevail and get this changed so everyone has the same chance to win the big events. Glenn
     
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