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Purchasing an expensive gun at The Grand?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    About 40 miles west of Chicago, IL
    I'm an FFL. One of my customers, Jimmi, asked me about the best way to buy a new, higher cost firearm. Most online sellers - on Gunbroker, for example - mention that they add a 3% surcharge to credit card payments. That seems to rule out using plastic.

    I often recommend contacting my favorite seller in Kentucky, making a deal, and sending a certified check or a postal money order. This is fine advice for the majority of common guns. Jimmi is saving for his dream shotgun and he plans to go to the Grand in 2013 to find it.

    I agreed with Jimmi that the credit card differential might be a good bargaining point (a 2% to 3% swing on a $10,000 purchase adss up quickly). I've been to the Grand, but my purchases were a pittance compared to what Jimmi is planning to spend next August. Should he carry cash (unsafe on many counts) or would the vendors be able to finish his deal with a personal check?
     
  2. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    "Cash is King"......hard to turn down a stack of $100 bills and tends to have more weight in negotiating.

    JMHO

    Jim C
     
  3. Pride Engineer

    Pride Engineer Member

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    Every dealer I have ever delt with at the Grand always took personal checks. Allem's, Jaquas, Alamo Arms, Guns Unlimited all have taken my check. Have a copy of your friends FFL along. That way you can pay for it and have it shipped to you friends FFL and won't be charged sales tax by the dealer you buy from.
     
  4. ninjak

    ninjak Member

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    Location:
    Paola Kansas
    This is what my bank gave me when i told them that a company wanted to charge me extra for card use

    VISA states that "you may not impose any surcharges on VISA transactions. You may, however, offer a discount for cash or another form of payment (e.g., proprietary card or gift certificate) provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"1

    MasterCard states that "A Merchant must not directly or indirectly require any Cardholder to pay a surcharge or any part of any Merchant discount or any contemporaneous finance charge in connection with a Transaction. A Merchant may provide a discount to its customers for cash payments."2

    Discover states that "You may assess a surcharge on a Card Sale conducted using a Credit Card provided that (i) the amount of the surcharge may not exceed the Merchant Fee payable by you to us for the Card Sale, and (ii) you assess surcharges on card sales conducted using other credit cards accepted by you."3

    American Express states that "You must not accept the Card for costs or fees over the normal price of your goods or services (plus applicable taxes) or Charges that Cardmembers have not specifically approved."4

    so tell the merchant they cannot charge u for a card purchase

    AL
     
  5. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    There is no limit that merchants can set on credit card purchases either. If they accept credit cards for anything, they are required to accept credit cards for everything; a 10 cent piece of bubble gum or a $50,000 vehicle (may be subject to your credit limit with the card company, and some cards will accept purchases over your credit limit and then hit you with over limit fees.) The master agreements that govern what companies can and cannot do are large volumes. If you use a Visa card, the mechant is not to ask for any other identification.

    If they violate the rules of the card company, call the issuer while you're standing in front of the merchant.

    Bob
     
  6. slowdp

    slowdp TS Member

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    Primed, many car dealers will accept a credit card for the deposit or down payment but will not accept the credit card for the sale. I don't know if they are in violation of the agreement with the credit card company or not but it is a fact of life.

    We did not sign an agreement with the credit card company for our business. Our agreement was signed with the company that brokers our credit card receipts and turns them into cash for our bank deposit. Admittedly I did not read the entire agreement.
     
  7. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    VISA states that "you may not impose any surcharges on VISA transactions. You may, however, offer a discount for cash or another form of payment (e.g., proprietary card or gift certificate) provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment"...

    Just about any description I've ever read, clearly discloses the "discounted cash" price... seems to confirm the practice...

    Jay
     
  8. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    If your friend is not comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, he can go to his bank and get cashier's checks to himself and then endorse it(them) over to the dealer.
     
  9. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    As a merchant I do NOT have any agreement with any CC Company. I have an agreement with a CC processor. If I sell a Gun for 10,000 and make a whoopen $500 on the transaction, then turn around and pay $300 plus daily fees and a transaction fee to the CC processor, I made nothing. Every Vendor at Sparta must have a Illinois State Tax permit and is required to pay Sales Tax of 7 1/4% on all sales. If he chooses to hide it and gets caught during his local State audit, he will be reported to Illinois by his State Tax people. Then He won't be back at Sparta next year.
    Yes every one wants to pay as little as possible for what ever they pay for, so pay Cash, then it's no longer a problem.
    Stu
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Way to go LS tell shooters to ignore and not pay sales tax. You either owe in the state you purchase it in or in the state where you live(had it shipped) when you file your taxes. Then you come on here and brag about it. You owe the State of Ohio the sales tax you bragged about evading. Your FFL friend is in trouble also.

    Maybe someday you will learn to keep quiet.

    Don
     
  11. jawingsr

    jawingsr Member

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    BIGDON, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. THE EYE IN THE SKY KNOWS WHAT EVERYONE IS DOING WHEN ON THE INTERNET DISCUSSING HOW TO BEAT THE SYSTEM. WHEN "THEY" HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THEY WILL COME FIND YOU AND RECOUP ANY MONEY THAT MAY BE OWED IN THE WAY OF TAXES & FEES NOT PAID BUY ANYONE INVOLVED IN A HIGH DOLLAR TRANSACTION AND YOU CAN ONLY HOPE YOU WON'T BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME AND HAVE TO TAKE ON THAT ADDITIONAL COST TO A DEFENSE ATTNY., COURT COST, FINES, ETC., TO PLEAD TO A LESSER CHARGE IF IT IS A FELONY BEING COMMITTED SO THAT WON'T BE ON YOUR RECORD FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND IT BEING DESTROYED OVER A FEW DOLLARS OWED BY LAW NO MATTER HOW SMALL OR LARGE THAT AMOUNT MAY BE. DON'T HAVE TUNNEL VISION WHEN TRYING TO SAVE A BUCK OR TWO, LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND ALL IT'S POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES INVOLVED WHEN YOU RUN THE RISK OF GETTING CAUGHT DOING SOMETHING POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL.
     
  12. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Location:
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    Fascinating how a simple question about using cash morphed into a rant about taxes, credit card fees, court costs, fines, and a FINAL POST THAT APPEARS TO BE ALL SHOUTING. Jimmi was just wondering if he should carry cash or if sellers will take a personal check.
     
  13. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    IL(The gun friendly Southern Part)
    I wrote personal checks for both trap guns I purchased at the Grand in Sparta to two seperate dealers. It was not near the money you are talking about but I don't see why that would be relevant.
     
  14. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Gramps it is relevent if he is taking delivery there or shipping it to you in another state.

    Don
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    <span style="font-family:Cursive;font-size:48px;font-style:normal;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;text-transform:capitalize;color:FF0000;background-color:000000;">GEEZ! TURN OFF THE CAPSLOCK!</span>
     
  16. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    As a dealer I'm glad to take a personal check with proper ID and an ATA Card. Many states now require FFLs to collect tax on guns shipped from other states. (CA,WA,OR to name a few...)

    Cash is not always king. Banks now charge a fee for accepting commercial cash deposits! No fee for checks. Hard to beat the system anymore.

    All our prices are based on check or wired funds payment, they are discounted 2.75% which is what our processor charges for a cc fee. As you may guess, not many folks charge a 10K gun!

    Bob
     
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