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Punch Question?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by tad houston, May 5, 2008.

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  1. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    I could use some help on this one. I took some of our SCTP kids to a shoot this weekend and they had a good one.

    The question comes in regarding punches for handicap scores. One kid shot a 99 and won both the local event as well as HOA for the zone (combined with shoots at 2 other clubs). The other shot a 97. They punched them half a yard each.

    My question is, was that correct? There were about 30 shooters at the club we were at but because this was a zone shoot, do you count only the ones there or do you award yardage based on the total of the three clubs (about 100) they were competing with?

    Also, as I read the rule book, #5 says “Any score of 97, 98 and 99 or winning a total of $750.00 or more (option and added money) in a single handicap event will automatically
    earn 1 yard,….”. No money involved here but wouldn’t this apply, should they have at least received a yard due to this?

    We are planning on shooting again next weekend as well as at the State shoot the following weekend and I don’t want to have their scores disqualified for shooting from the wrong yardage. I don’t think I can wait until these results are posted to the ATA site to see what the “Official” results are so I’m throwing it out here for some instant advice.

    Thanks!
     
  2. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of the number of shooters, a score of 96 is automatic 1/2 yard, 97 thru 99 is automatic 1 yard, 100 is automatic 1 1/2 yards.

    Depending on the number of shooters you can get punched more than that and more than just the high score can get punched depending on the number of shooters. The yardage table is in the ATA rulebook (available online at shootata.com) for the specifics.

    They should have received AT LEAST a yard.

    Scott
     
  3. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    “Any score of 97, 98 and 99 or winning a total of $750.00 or more (option and added money) in a single handicap event will automatically earn 1 yard,….”.

    The above rule definitely applies so they should get a full yard punched on their card not just a half yard. The number of shooters is for the venue where they shoot not including shooters at other clubs. Congratulations to your young shooters.
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    miketmx,

    Where in the Rule book does it refer to the # at the venue?
     
  5. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    Thanks guys! Both for the help and the compliments! I was pretty sure they should have received a yard, and I was certain I would get some clarification here.

    Much Appreciated!
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where in the rulebook it is, but I asked this question concerning the ATA Western Zone Shoot which is a telephonic shoot held simultaneously at 9 different locations and I was told by the Western Zone Vice President and two State delegates that each location applies the Earned Yardage Table for the number of shooters at the particular club not the whole zone.
     
  7. WilliamMR

    WilliamMR Active Member

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    The club made an error on the yardage punch. Unless you contact them soon, they will most likely send in their report to the ATA with the 1/2 yard punches.

    The rulebook never addresses multiple locations, just the number of entries at the shoot in question (VI-D, p.23).

    Bill Radwan
     
  8. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    It is interesting that to win an ATA Zone HC trophy you have to beat all the entrants regardless of the number of locations, but the total number of entrants you beat doesn't effect the punch. I hope there is a logical explanation for this other than it is just another facit of the totally nonsensical punch system so it has to be nonsensical as well.
     
  9. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

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    Most times if a punch is inaccurately reported to the ATA they will fix it and issue the full yard that the kids should have been punched..but to be safe I would contact a local state director and have them repunch the card so that there is no confusion at the next ATA shoot that these kids go to....Jim the # of punches that will be given out is in the rule book right under the the paragraph that defines punches...but regardless of how many shooters are at an event a score of 97 is an automatic full yard...( as is 98, 99)

    Kym
     
  10. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I dunno about a logical reason but when our local club had strong wind and rain the Handicap winner could have a score like a 94 and get a punch where a Top Dawg shooter could have a 100 straight at Spanish Fork in real nice weather.
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Kym,

    No doubt about the yard for the 97&99. I'm just sayin' the rulebook should address the issue of how you count the entrants. If all the entrants are competing for the same trophy, then all the entrants should be counted for the punch list.
     
  12. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    At the Western Zone telephonic shoot, club trophies are awarded at each venue in addition to the zone wide trophies and shootoffs for the zone trophies are assisted by a Fax machine for a real time report of the scores.
     
  13. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    J Brooks, Sec1:24 of the rulebook.

    Earned yardage based upon entries is as follows.

    15 to 39 1st 1/2yd. 40 t0 69 1st. 1yd.
    70 to 124 1st. 1yd. 2nd 1/2yd. 125 to 249 1st. 1yd.
    2nd 1yd 3rd 1/2yd, 250 to 499 1st. 1-1/2yd. 2nd 1yd.
    3rd. 1/2yd. 500 to 1499 1st. 2yds. 2nd. 1-1/2 yds.
    3rd 1yd. 4th 1/2yd. 1500 up 1st. 2-1/2yds, 2nd 2yds.
    3rd 1-1/2yds. 4th. 1 yd. All ties receive the same.
     
  14. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Now that I think about it, I never asked the question about the overall Zone Handicap champion getting additional yardage based on the total entries for the whole zone. I only asked and received the answer that "YES" the Earned Yardage Table would be applied for the number of shooters at each club.
     
  15. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    Wow! I think I stirred up something here, certainly not what I had in mind. But Thanks again for the input!

    I am new enough at this to not know who exactly to call in an effort to try and catch the "error" before it gets to the ATA, but I will try and call there tomorrow and get some direction, again, I don't want to have the kids shoot from the wrong yardage.

    They are getting better fast and are probably under handicapped at this point. I guess that is what the punches are for, right?
     
  16. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is a rules "authority". That man is Dave Kaiser. His email is 2kaisers@mtaonline.net. Another good spot to start is with the Central Handicap Committee. The specific contact information can be found on the ATA Web site and contact info.

    Let us know how it turns out and what the official answer is.

    Regards
    Gary
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    trapdady if by the time you go to the shoot next week it is not resolved go to the classifiers and show them the average cards for the shooters in question. Explain the situation and they can correct it also.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    Just a quick follow up.

    I did get ahold of the folks at the club where we shot and they will be submitting the corrected punch info (1 full yard) to the ATA today.

    Thanks for all the input!
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read where the earned yardage table is adjusted for telephonic shoots and the total amount of shooters involved. Wouldn't punching for scores at the club shot be more fair to all shooters, same as other shoots? Using the total numbers of participants at all clubs for punches, might it be possible for one club shooting in bad weather to have a winner at that club while not making the "numbers" cut-off for punches? Not a good idea to include all shooter numbers in such a format is my thinking. Hap
     
  20. Browning Guy

    Browning Guy TS Member

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    What if you win a catagory at a state zone shoot? Do you get a punch for that?
     
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