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Punch because of winning $$

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by The Shadow, Jun 22, 2007.

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  1. The Shadow

    The Shadow TS Member

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    Shooting bull at the club last night & the topic of getting a yardage punch came up. We were discussing the pros & cons of getting punched for shooting a lower score, but winning enough cash to get punched. One of the guys was at the PA state shoot the night the young lady ( Devi/Recurvey?) won the K-80, & we were wondering if that counts as $$ won in an event. If so, why, & if not, why not? Inquiring minds want to know. For winning that much, she would get punched back to the parking lot!!
     
  2. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to look up the rule right now, but I would say NO.

    She did not win the gun based on a winning score in the event, or even based on her score shot in the event or any of its subevents. Everyone that shot say 71, 81 or 91 got into a separate shootoff, and she won that. I don't think shooting 30 straight in a separate shootoff is enough reason for the CHC to increase yardage.
     
  3. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If you shoot a winning score in most cases you will win money and get punched if you win by score not amount of money because its not predetermined (the money) and pays based on the amount of shooters who played the money as well as added money ...
    Not sure how Devi won the gun but she obviously beat out the others who were competeing for it based on something ... I have seen where they draw a number and the people who shot from a certain post, or broke a certain score, a score ending in a certain number or a multitude of variations can all be used to determine who is going to shoot for what and so on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  4. The Shadow

    The Shadow TS Member

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    I've seen Lewis payouts get punched & that is just a "Luck of the draw" number, but it did win cash. If high dollar prizes are given instead of cash, the arbritary punch could be avoided. Win a gun & sell it for $$. It would still be playing by ATA rules, just tweeked to the benefit of the shooter.
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    "I've seen Lewis payouts get punched & that is just a "Luck of the draw" number"

    But how many Lewis payouts have you seen get punched when the score would not have been punched anyway? Ususlly you have to shoot a winning or place score to win enough to get a money punch. Also, shooting great subevent scores in the 50 options could pay off. Not many of these money punches are due to a "luck of the draw" situation.

    Her score in the ATA event was not a winning score and was well below the 96 automatic punch. She did not win $750 based on her score in the event. She was simply eligible for a special event and won it in 30 shots. It's not the same thing as shooting 50 straight for a middle 50 option and then dumping targets to avoid a punch.

    Just my view on it.
     
  6. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    It has happened that a low Lewis score hit a good deal of money because it was the only score that hit for that class. It does not happen often, but it has. There was that situation in our shoot this past weekend in one of the handicaps, three Lewis classes, $25 entry, one pay per class. The top score was a tie between two shooters, the second class had four (I think, may have been three, but the data is at home on another computer), and the third class hit the score by himself, and took home the top money from that Lewis. It was not enough for a "money" punch, but it is conceivable that at a big shoot it could happen, particularly if the weather is bad and the scores are all over the place. One could receive a "money" punch under the current rules even if the score was in the bottom third or fourth of all scores shot.
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    The way I see this, some wants another shooter to get a yardage punch for having a lucky shoot. I think the rule stinks and it will never do the intended job it was created for. The same thing for the known ability rule, not evenly spread across the ranks as it should be either.

    1974 200 93.50% 900 89.44% 200 74.50%

    During the year posted above, I got a yard from the CHC for known ability from the 23 to the 24 yard line? The scores above had nothing to do with the yard, shooting 2 rounds from 52 yards behind the trap did. I beat 2 others for a few dollars and one of those guys dropped a dime on me to CHC informing them that I'd beat a good 27 yard shooter in the process. Good old boy network from the past, is it still in effect? Hap
     
  8. The Shadow

    The Shadow TS Member

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    The known ability rule is wide open for abuse. Some guy goes out & shoots 25 straight on one trap, can the CHC say he can get punched because he has shown the ability to shoot a trap straight,& so if he can do one, why shouldn't the CHC say he can do 4 traps straight??
    I've seen it twice in the last two years where a Lewis class winner got a $$ punch, where he got a higher payout than the higher winning scores. The higher scores didn't play the Lewis, so they eliminated themselves. I agree, it isn't common, but it does happen.
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Ghost:

    Are you saying you saw a shoot where someone won at least $750 in the Lewis with a score of less than 96 and/or a score that did not get a punch according to the chart?

    With a $10 lewis and 4 classes thats 300 shooters in the Lewis. Tough to hit a lone score with that many shooters. It is possible for a $750 payout in one of the lower Lewis classes, granted, but I've never seen it. Honestly, its getting tough to win $750 even for the top score in the lewis at large shoots.
     
  10. Ron23in

    Ron23in TS Member

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    It works like this play the 50s run the first two then drop 11 birds on the last trap whitch gives you a good lewis score and keeps you on the 20 yd line. At a big shoot you should make 1800. I have saw it happen . The old vet
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    870- It is rather unusual for any winning Lewis score except first place to be high enough for a punch. With 4 lewis classes scores similar to 98,94,90,88 will pay.

    It is possible to win $750 by winning a Lewis class alone but it would be very unusual. I do believe that if it were to happen a letter to shooters delegate, CHC or EC representative would be adequate to reverse the punch.

    Known ability introduces human judgment into the system. I recognize that this can be abused, but it also can rectify problems.

    All discussions of punches eventually can be reduced to the individuals view of a punch. Many consider a punch to be an honer while others consider it a punishment. There are many at each extreme viewpoint and none in the middle.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. hubcap

    hubcap TS Member

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    I won $26 last week ............. do I get a punch?
     
  13. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    Sorry Ghostrider, things like the K gun shootoff do not count toward a money punch. Nor should they. Nor should anyone put lots of stock and apply known ability into shooting 30 targets in a non-standard fashion (two to a post, 10 to a trap). I think the handicap system is screwed up enough without punching someone for shooting well in an abreviated luck of the draw game. I have the distict feeling that you and your friends are overly envious of the shotgun winner and are now showing just how small and petty you really are.
     
  14. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    In my last 600 handicap targets I got 3 1 yard punches, one for a 89, one for a 97 and one for a 94 in that order. I guess you have to expect that when you shoot on windy days.

    Bill
     
  15. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    What funny about this thread, recurveyarcher wanted a punch for winning the krieghoff. now that lady has class.
     
  16. The Shadow

    The Shadow TS Member

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    Have Gun Will Travel, No where in my post did I refer to indorse or to deny a punch for winning money. Like I said, we were wondering why or why not, as there is definitely an inconsistancy. As to you inferring about my friends & I being small & petty, I tell you this, I wouldn't know this lady if I bumped into her, so your defending her is quite honorable, but the post was not about her, it was about "getting puched for winning money" So, take your big foot out of your bigger mouth & calm down. As I post very little on here, this one just reminds why I don't. GR
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    jbbor:

    I was saying that "luck of the draw" winnings shouldn't be punched, and was pointing out that lower class Lewis Class wins, admittedly luck in the lower classes, rarely if ever pay enough to get a punch. This was in response to those posting that lewis class payoffs are luck and could get a punch.

    Winning a perfect 50 pot is not luck of the draw. I'm neutral regarding the rule, but the rule was written to address shooters hitting a perfect 50 for the payoff while keeping overall score below the punch level, as you know.

    I think there is a difference between hitting a payoff for a 50 in the program targets vs. Devi's situation.
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Some 50 options happen to be any combination of 2 25s in the hundred targets. Why punish a shooter for actually getting lucky once in a blue moon? I thought everyone says let the sand baggers show up at this or that club and shoot, just bring them on? There are some who manipulate the rules but 99% of the trap shooters are very honest sportsmen/women so why punish everyone to get at a select few? This rational is beyond me. Hap
     
  19. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    I'm doing my best to get punched. I hope it doesn't hurt too much when it happens.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- Within your above post, there is an insight into how our society often strives to solve a problem. Rather than directly dealing with an offender, we pass general regulations intended to eliminate a problem and frequently punish the innocent along with the offender. It is much easier to pass a general regulation affecting everyone than confront an individual.

    This very cumbersome method of solving problems can easily be seen in government agencies, the work place and at trap clubs.

    Pat Ireland
     
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