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Public Safety Net...THE PROBLEM

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by BrowningPotato, Apr 5, 2011.

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  1. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    I was just watching the news and saw Paul Ryan claiming about the importance of the "public safety net." This so called safety net is primarily responsible for the national debt and unsustainable spending and needs to be removed NOT reformed.

    Here is my thought. If we totally eliminate medicare, medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, etc. our national debt would decrease RAPIDLY, the aforementioned programs are the vast majority of our deficit spending.


    If the debt decreases confidence will increase and spur job creation and economic growth. Further, taxes could be drastically lowered and people would have more money for charity and philanthropic giving. Nonprofits such as the United Way and churches could help give necessary charity throughout their local community.

    What say you? Should we amend the so called safety net or get rid of it and reinstate personal responsibility?
     
  2. ntgr8

    ntgr8 Member

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    Get rid of everything except Social Security. Guess what program I am on.
     
  3. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    Social Security IS the biggest unfunded mandate in the history of man. It was never intended to be the SOLE retirement program for all Americans, it was intended to be supplemental.

    Why should I be FORCED to be part of the public retirement program? In a "free" country why am I not given the option to privately invest that money for my own retirement?
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Can't get rid of it. they already stole all the money, and the box is full of IOU's.

    We are at a 43% portion of the government's income being used for debt service (that's interest, y'all).

    Try that in your life once and see how you fare.

    HM
     
  5. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    I agree Rick, it is certainly a mess. But it is irresponsible and unethical to keep FORCING younger Americans to pay into the same mistake. Some people will struggle by eliminating these programs, perhaps churches and nonprofits can help those on fixed incomes, perhaps a one time lump sum payment to these individuals. Either way, the system is broken and MUST be stopped cold turkey!
     
  6. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    Rick, I agree for the most part, I just think it is completely unethical to force people in their 20s to continue to pay into a system which everyone KNOWS will be obsolete by the time it comes for them to receive benefits.

    It must and will be stopped and people will face hard times, but continuing broken programs is unethical. Republicans need to stop pandering to the poor, everyone knows these programs are the problem noone wants to hear it though.
     
  7. slipping into darkness

    slipping into darkness TS Member

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    Well when I first read this post I really through you were doing some fly fishing, but I see your serious, so here's some money savers, First the politician don't need the tax payers paying for there Platinum health care, they All have Stole enough To PAY there OWN WAY, and there retirement should Max out at 70,000 a year, and in all honesty there not worth it, THEY PUT US IN the mess were in.
    Next get rid of all the hand outs for illegals, that alone would eliminate over half our debt. Also we need to empty out our prison and the attorneys and do good-Er's that want to "save" all the non savable's and ship them out on one way tickets. I hope this is not to drastic, and this should give us a good start in the right direction in getting out of debt!!!!
     
  8. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    "Next get rid of all the hand outs for illegals, that alone would eliminate over half our debt"

    This is simply not true. Show me the numbers that show that Illegal Immigration causes HALF of our deficit spending. The fact is Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are the major contributors to our debt, we will not be fiscally responsible until they are eliminated.
     
  9. JohnBT

    JohnBT TS Member

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    "people will face hard times"

    If you define hard times as being homeless, you're right.

    My 85-year-old neighbor will be out on the street if SS is ended. She barely makes ends meet now. Nurses - RNs _ didn't make all that much back in her day and her pension is fairly small. (I do her short-form taxes and have been her neighbor for 31 years fwiw.)

    Are you going to take her in?

    I didn't think so.

    John
     
  10. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    So youre saying your neighbor planned poorly for her retirement and planned to substantially rely on a supplemental retirement program and you expect me to continue paying for her poor planning, while bankrupting the country in the process?

    The liberals love to pick these sob stories to justify "business as usual" the reality is the program is bankrupt. Im sure your neighbor has friends and family that could help her, perhaps you as a neighbor could contribute. We cannot continue to bankrupt our country based on "feel good" legislation. I would love to help the less fortunate, unfortunately the government takes too much of my expendable income for me to donate as much as I would like. We do not need to be a slace to government programs American generosity would prevail.
     
  11. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    So you will not accept your Social Security money when it becomes avail, and let them have it?



    How old are you Mr. Potato?




    Guy Babin
     
  12. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    It's a great idea as long as I get back all the money I paid in for the last 42 plus years, plus interest earned, I could do better with the money than they will anyway. But to just stop the program would be grand theft.

    Rick in MT
     
  13. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    In regards to "I want all the money that I paid in back" doesent this exemplify the problem with the public system. You will never get back all the money you paid in, IT IS GONE!! There is no Social Security Trust Fund the 1983 Greenspan Commission ensured that all Social Security surpluses be placed into the general fund, which has subsequently been spent.

    The government squandered "your money" it has been given away to the same entitlement programs we are talking about medicare, medicaid, welfare, etc. At some point the program will be stopped, like it or not, it is simply a matter of how it is stopped. I will never see a dime of the money I paid in, I have come to terms with that. However, why is it ok to keep forcing me to pay into a system which I will never see a penny of it back, nor do I want to be a part of.

    Can ANYONE explain to me why I am FORCED to take part in a retirement system which I do not want to be a part of, how is that not oppressive? I do not need the government to take care of me, I am fiscally responsible with my own money and want to invest it how I see fit, but unfortunately I do not have that option.

    All of you who say "that is my money", you are right and in a perfect world you should be entitled to every penny back, unfortunately this cannot happen. Had your generation fought tooth and nail to allow for opting out, you would still have your money, only in an account that you control.
     
  14. slipping into darkness

    slipping into darkness TS Member

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    I'm sure one of our scholar will supply figures for you, but know comment on the 3 peace suit crooks in D.C., what do you think those parasites are costing us just to keep there sorry a--es alive with the best health care that they shouldn't even be getting!! How come you don't bring up the fact of all the pork they steal, how much of our debt wood be eliminated if all was return? look up the well know politician who hold the record for the most pork. The prison, no comment on that burden to the States and federal system, its almost better, than being in D.C. you can get a better education, tie up the courts with ritualistic law suit, and you have fantastic health care, I believe last year a prisoner in California got a heart transplant or some other vital organ. our prison should be like tent city in Arizona or worst! Maybe then there be some deterrent.
     
  15. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    Darkness, I agree with alot of your argument, however, the reason I do not mention these is because they pale in comparison to the entitlements. The difference is mandatory versus discretionary spending. I could write a book about entitlements and why mandatory spending is so much worse than discretionary spending, and many have written on the subject.

    As much as I hate earmarks and "pork" they are not even a drop in the bucket compared to madatory entitlements. We could elliminate ALL discretionary spending and we would still be racking up massive debt. Medicare, Medicade, and Social Security ARE the biggest drain on our country and future generations, THEY MUST BE ELLIMINATED for the sake of our Country!
     
  16. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    How old are you Mr Spud man? What has YOUR generation contributed?



    Guy Babin

    1955
     
  17. BrowningPotato

    BrowningPotato TS Member

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    I am certainly not saying my generation has contributed anything. In fact, most in my cohort are lazy, uninformed, and want to be spoon fed. What I am saying is simply that the money you all have contributed will never be reclaimed. You may get some payments but the program is a ponzi scheme and bankrupt. Your government has spent your retirement and my future and it needs to be ended completely NOT REFORMED.

    I am roughly 30 and I will NEVER see a dime of what I paid into SS, in fact I dont even want to, I am willing to donate what I have contributed just to be allowed to opt out from here on out and invest for my retirement on my own.

    How can we consider ourselves "free" when we are forced to continue paying into a system which we do not want and will never receive any benefit from.

    Guy, I bet you wish you had all the money you have contributed over the years in a lump sum which you could access and invest as you please, right? That is all I am advocating that the younger generation be responsible for themselves and be allowed to opt out of the flawed, and unconstitutional, program.
     
  18. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Member

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    <a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i296/3miles/?action=view&current=hammock1.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    The problem with the current public "safety net" is that most of the people on the list are using it as a HAMMOCK!
     
  19. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Not to worry people, like all problems this one contains it's own solution. Why argue about something over which you have no control when the problem is going to correct itself anyway? Nature is the great leveler. It only allows forces to get just so far out of "level" and then it levels them naturally. Like the forces that build between tectonic plates. After so long boom, an earthquake and everything is returned to "level".


    Our economic system is beyond repairable it is so far out of "level," especially when at least 50% of the power people who are un-leveling it want it that way. Stop arguing about it and start preparing for it.
     
  20. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    SS is a needed program now that it was accepted into this country. The people who need it the most are those who worked "hard" all there life. They supplied the rich with their butt wipe, cleaned up their private mess's they made after a stay in a $$$$$ motel or spa. I could go on with examples.

    But this is all that needs to happen to fix SS, Stop the fraud and NO CHECK's goes to a address outside a US State including automatic deposits!

    One other thing, make congress return the funds they Stole from it!

    You'll never get anything straightened out in DC as long as there are progressive voted into office's!
     
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