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Proposed ATA Classification Changes

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Doctor_Chicago, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. Doctor_Chicago

    Doctor_Chicago Member

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    This is what I wrote to the Executive Committee today about modifying our classification sytem:


    Dear ATA Executive Committee:


    I am making a proposal on how we can better classify our shooters and I think it could help grow our sport of trap shooting.


    I would like to see the D Class broken down further into three classes. I think if we are able to promote the sportsman and the occasional shooters to come and shoot trap we could help grow our sport.


    I would like to have the classifications and name changes as follows:


    Score New Name Class Old Name Class

    0-under 60 - Sportsman - D

    60-under 80 Sportsman First Class D

    80-under 90 Advanced Sportsman D


    90-under 93 Top Sportsman C

    93-under 94.75 Trapper B

    94.75-under 96.25 Trapper First Class A

    96.25-under 98 Top Trapper AA

    98 and over Master Trapper AAA



    If a group that shoots anywhere from 0-under 93 they are known as Sportsmans. This would have an all inclusive and less intimidating feel to the new or occasional shooter. Quite frankly as people discover that they have to break 22.5 birds on average out of 25 just to move out of D Class gives little hope and a lot of guys just give up. Trappers shoot 93 and above and they are called that to give some distinction without detracting or cause of exclusion from the sportsman groups.


    The stigma of grading the classifications such as D means "poor" in the educational system. I think we need to change the perceived harshness and poor grade associated with this type of classification/grading system. I think the naming system would be better at promoting the sport and give a person to move up without stigma or perceived exclusion from the "real" shooters.


    There are a lot of Sportsman type people that may only be able to shoot 50-90 percent of their birds during their lifetime. That doesn't mean they don't have money, like the comraderie and enjoy shooting trap. The lowest classification is called Sportsman and there is no stigma attached to it. Sportsman First Class that person has already made it out of the bottom ranking and would be feeling a little better about himself and his abilities. I believe this proposed system has a lot of merit if you closely examine all of the up side potential of it.


    I want you to really consider this change, because I have spoken to several ATA members thus far, which seemed to have embraced this idea. I will also be posting this over at Trapshooters.com in the near future for additional response.


    Respectfully submitted,


    --
    DR. M

    ATA Member


    aka Doctor_Chicago on Trapshooters.com
     
  2. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    How about these?

    Make an individual class for every shooter. That way everyone wins and can't complain about sandbagging or crappie classifications. So when a shooter hits that all time high of 68, they can go home with the trophy claming to have won class #83 singles!! Whoopee!!!

    Or maybe instead of all those classes we could have one event that paid or gave trophies to multiple positions based on participation. That way instead of awards for first in 5 or more classes that are made up of 3-whatever number of shooters. You could award 5 places 1st -5th in the sole class. I like that better anyway. That way a AA shooter that shoots a 99 will get an award that is now being given to a B shooter that won with a 98.

    Just a couple of contrasting thoughts.
     
  3. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    I suppose I can see what you are saying about D as it relates to the educational system but I don't think we can add more class'. Sure it is only two class but with profits as small as they are now two more trophies is enough to cause problems, especially for small clubs. Trophies are not that great now, add two more everywhere with the same amount of money to be spent....

    I always liked the novice category they had years ago and maybe D should replace it but what about the folks that never get out of D? Can't be a novice forever.

    You could be on the right track but not there yet.

    John
     
  4. Trucido

    Trucido TS Member

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    Doctor Chicago, sounds like an interesting plan and you have obviously given it a good bit of thought. I personally disagree, because I think that 5 classes is quite enough. I would actually rather go the other way and have an A, B, C, D, E class such that we actually just have single-letter, simple classes...but this is basically the same as the current system and see no reason to change it. I don't think that this idea will really get much traction, as trap shooters seem to be pretty steadfast in their ways and are probably unwilling to change something which most will see as not actively benefiting them.

    cdconley, As I told lumper - why the sarcasm? I disagree with the OP and stated my disagreement with my personal reasons. Sarcasm is not necessary or useful for you to make a point and it degrades any point you may have. Grow up and learn some civility.

    Thanks,
    Kyle
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    cdconley I like your idea about when the shooter hit the all time high of 68 that is very good. I do however think I have improved on that a little. If we take all the shooters in each class put their names in a hat draw one out Bingo a winner all problems solved. No sandbaggers no cheating no competition everything is A-OK.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    The ATA Classification system is used at satellite grands and Zone shoots. The system that is used at a club is up to the management of the local gun club. I have frequently seen a Novice Class used at registered shoots and there is no reason in the world why a club cannot have Sportsman Classes to encourage new shooters to sign up and try the game we have learned to love.
     
  7. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    As a fairly new PITA member...I have felt no stigma attached to the label "D" class...In fact, I am pretty much hating being stuck in "B" class. As it goes, I imagine I will get stuck in "C" class when i do finally get classified as I cannot shoot many tournaments since I work weekend graveyard shift.

    Sure, if i could have attended more registered shoots when I first joined PITA I would have had a chance at competing in D class and maybe even winning a few tourneys. AS it stands now I will probably end up in C class and that is ok with me if that is where my shooting skill lies.

    Buddy joked to me after i had an amazingly good start on my singles with a 93, "you better sandbag the next 400 or yer gonna end up in "C" class. Not a chance...i actually look forward to it. With less than 15K targets registered or not under my belt...I'll be more than happy to start out in "C" as an affirmation of my practice paying off.
     
  8. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Doctor, can I assume you're a Podiatrist? That, of course, assumes that you really are a doctor, not a nurse.
     
  9. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Think about the clubs and the amount of trophys a classification system such as Dr. Chgo suggests, then add the amount of fees that would have to be charged to the shooters so those trophys could be provided ... This type of system would only increase the amount of money it would cost to register targets if the shooters all got trophys ... I think the system as suggested has some merit but only with major modifications done to it, which would eliminate the majority of trophys and desire because the newer shoioter would not all be getting trophys again to keep the cost down ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Sounds a lot like sporting clays. If it worked it would only be at large shoots. As Bill stated it would be financial hardship on small clubs because you know it a person won a class and didn't get a trophy it would be all over here the next day.

    Don
     
  11. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    Trucido,

    Sarcasm? What make’s you think I was being sarcastic? Could it be that we have this same discussion every month on this site? Could it maybe be that some people believe that “winning an event” means winning the D class while others believe that to win an event you shoot the HOA.

    The truth is that if the ATA wanted to solve the problem they could, instantly by making a couple of very minor changes. But then again if they did the people complaining that a “sandbagger” beat them out for the D class would end up being called the next sandbagger by the next second place shooter. It’s the way it is and the way it will always be. If you don’t like sandbaggers just shoot the AA class, they got no sandbaggers there. But back to the one most important fix, NO GOING BACKWARDS. Once you average 97 or higher on any 1000 targets you’re a AA shooter. So if you have a bad shoot in the wind or rain that puts your average down to 94 T.S., you’re still a AA shooter. If a shooter wins a major event in the C like a State, Zone or S.G in 2007, when he comes back in 2008 he should be in B or higher no exception.
     
  12. k3uro

    k3uro Member

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    Hey Guys,

    Look at the winners. Now we may be wannabes but I will never be a Mays, Bender or Munson and not even a Digweed :eek:)

    Why do I have to shoot in their class, they are professional shooters plan and simple.

    I, for one, am loseing interest because I can not compete with those shooters and never will. Oh, I might get lucky from time to time and break a good score. I might even beat one of them. But they win year after year in their specialties.

    So, why can't we have a bracket for the every day shooter, like me?

    Take care,

    Jim
     
  13. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    In regards to what Jim said above...why IS is called the ATA when clearly many of the big dogs are professional shooters? (paid by sponsors?)

    Not that it really matters to me just out of curiosity.
     
  14. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

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    The biggest supporters of clay target shooting is the casual shooter, 80% I bet never join the ATA, NSSA, NSCA, or P.I.T.A the reason? Most are not interested in competition, they just want to tune up for dove, quail, or waterfowl season end of story.

    I would guess that there is a significant amount of league shooting going on as well, but again these shooters have no desire to register targets, this is a social function.

    Ronbo
     
  15. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Why is Dr. Chicago getting dogged? If we don't put out new ideas things will never change...not that I really think the current system is broken beyond fixing but state your non-agreeing points and be done with it. There is no need to blast someone just because they state an idea that not everyone disagrees with.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  16. Doctor_Chicago

    Doctor_Chicago Member

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    I appreciate everyone's comments and input.

    I would like to say that the example is the same as currently in the ATA book except that the D Class has been broken into three groups. All this does is add two additional groups to the current classification system.

    If someone would say oh you shoot trap - The C or D class shooters could easily say I am in the "Sportsman Class" -- There would be Four Sportmans Classes so it would be a little more inclusive of a lot of shooters.

    When you go to the Registration desk do you ever hear someone yell out "I AM IN D CLASS!!!"

    They certainly call out "A or AA" louder.

    We should continue with the dialog...
     
  17. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Jerry ... people get dogged when people either disagree with them and they do not know how to converse with them so they instead dog them or when people are so intense in how they feel that they will never ever let anyone else say or do anything different than what they think is correct and thusly they will dog all those that do not follow what they think and feel is the only way to do anything.

    TS.com proves this each and every day.
     
  18. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I think it is a good idea to toss ideas out for discussion, but FWIW I don't think the situation should be addressed by effectively adding more classes. It won't go anywhere due to cost of additional trophies etc.

    I don't see any overall way around the problem of lower classes needing AAA scores to win. As I have posted many times, I think we could improve things in D class by getting improving shooters moved up faster, but that is about all. At least D class could be improved.
     
  19. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    Above posts are ideas worth considering...might consider broadening the classes something like this:

    AAA Master 97+

    AA Top Trapper 94-97

    A Trapper 90-94

    B Top Sportsman 85-90

    C Sportsman 1 75-85

    D Sportsman Under 75
     
  20. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    How about an AA, A, B, C, and "S" class for sportsmen (trophy only) NO "D". The shooter that shoots a hundred to 500 a year, at hanhycap, place them at the 24 yard line all the time, but they can only win a "S" trophy and cannot bet any money? Keep the occational shooter in the game?
     
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