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Proper Target Height- Another Question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by phirel, Apr 5, 2008.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    We have had many informative discussions on how to measure the height pole, measure the angle of the trap plate and the best way to measure the distance of the height pole. All of these discussions revolve around setting the height of a target that is straight away from post three.

    Has any club checked the height of targets from the other posts? It is possible that a trap may not be mounted level in the house. This could result in the proper height of a target from post three, a high target from post one and a low target from post five.

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    are you trolling this morning? Ive noticed on the ole winchesters if the trap boy didnt get the target on the arm right it could be bout any height and darned near anywhere on the field, hence the ole post 5 screaming low hard right. lol even with the new pats seems like a lot of times the right bird is a little lower in dbls. why's that?

    bob
     
  3. romie

    romie Active Member

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    Here we go!! Get em stirred up!
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It is also possible, Pat, that a breeze is blowing and that may cause targets on one side to be higher than the other.

    Since the height from 1 and 5 is undefined in the rulebook, I think your post would be improved by using the terms "higher" and "lower" than "high" and "low." The latter, to me, imply a reference to the rules, while using the comparative emphasizes where that are relative to the rulebook defined straightway from post 3.

    And who remembers the "windage lever?" It was the first thing a setter did on a handset, match the straightaway to the 50-yard stake based on today's wind. The Pat-Trap so many use doesn't have one. Doesn't the wind make any difference anymore?

    Neil
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Target setting should be done by a robot. A robot with a very large brain. A robot programed to get the settings right every time. Leaving the job of target setting to humans is just asking for trouble. HMB
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    What is the proper size hoop to use for setting the height ?? Our club has a rectangle on the pole and the dimensions are about 1 ft by 3 ft and I think 6 inches by 3 ft would be better for more consistent targets on each trap.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have never seen a trap field set with a hoop. It is common on skeet fields but not on trap fields. But, just because I have never seen it does not mean that a few clubs use one.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Pat, any input on the surveyors and engineers findings from today?
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Paladin- Yes. Great improvements were made. We (Dave,Art and Jon did most of the work) have a template for accurate height poles. Jon and Art are going to install the bases to hold the poles. It turns out that we can get the poles cut from a 20 foot length of plastic pipe. One height pole base will have to be around 4 feet high. The system we are installing can easily be changed when we raise the walkways 6 inches this Summer. The work that was done yesterday will insure good targets at the club as long as the wind does not blow up the valley or over the ridge or both at the same time. Even if the wind is blowing, I am confident all of our targets will remain between six feet and 18 feet high at 10 yards. This is an improvement.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    To Neil and Pat, The GMV still utilizes the windage lever to set the straight away from post 3 for each days wind. Yes, it is very convenient and important for those of us in setting targets from the WW handset days. ?? Where is the 2 hole or 3 hole on our Pat's, I've not been able to find it. It makes me wonder where all those fruitless discussions come from or when the last time some of those participants were in a house setting a field for the days events. LOL. Shoot well, Bob
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Bob, you are exactly right. Many people _are_ shooting three-hole targets - to right or to left or both - off Pat-Traps because the club has not checked what the angles really are. The Minneapolis Gun Club, Metro Gun Club, and Alexandria where the State shoot is held spend a lot of time and effort ensuring that angles will be just right for their ATA shoots. "Setter" at the Grand does too, and will check _any trap_ he hears of that might have drifted slightly off. Some traps in all these places need changing, some not. But unless they are checked it's just as you say; argument about 2- and 3-holes are "fruitflies."

    Neil
     
  12. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Neil,, sometime after the 26th, I will ask what you found regarding,,

    "So did the post sink into the ground on one of these traps? I can hardly believe it, but we are having a meeting on the 26th and I'll take the equipment up there and "shoot" the posts. If they haven't moved - well, it's back to the drawing board on the angle-meter front."

    Thank you.
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No problem, Paladin; remember the thread and bring it up; I'll post the results, no graphs, I promise.

    Neil
     
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Great.

    I always like the graphs Neil. They can give the results an interesting look. History has shown you to be very proactive with the facts and results of your experiments, rather than assume some rumor to be true. Your experiments and graphs are far more than most of us provide, so you should be commended for them. I just wish there were available a tightly controlled experiment that could put to bed the 'felt recoil of fast vs slow powder' discussion. But that's for another day.
     
  15. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Leave the hoop to the skeeters. The only good way to assure proper height is the t-bar after speed is set.

    Pat and Neil: if a crosswind is present then adjust the windage until the targets are as stable as can be. No robot science needed.
     
  16. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Barry,,one of the main points in this thread and the previous one on the same subject is, do you know if your t-bar pedestals are at the same height? If you're in freeze/thaw or wetland areas, they've been known to have shifted in height, I assume. The other possibility is, they weren't set correctly in the first place.

    The t-bar is only as good as what it is setting on.
     
  17. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Dear Mr. Paladin - If the targets are set to the 10 yard mark. There will be little difference from trap to trap. Now and then a target might not be
    proper. But that is the shooters responcibility. He/She shoud understand what a legal target is. If he/she declines a poor target that is their right, but if they shoot it the results will stand. Why all the comments about what is or is not right. - Jim
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Barry, how does one adjust the windage on a Pat-Trap?

    Neil
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Jim said,, "If the targets are set to the 10 yard mark. There will be little difference from trap to trap".

    I disagree. I have found that the "10 yard mark" IS varying in height, for what ever reason. That's the topic of this discussion. I would patronize a club that takes good target setting seriously, rather than a club that willy nilly throws a target.
     
  20. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I swear, with some Trap fields I shoot at, I'm walking downhill from post 5 to post 1. You may have something Pat. Dave T.
     
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