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Proper Mount

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, Sep 15, 2007.

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  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    As I said in another thread, I just got Phil Kiner's DVD. One thing I noticed, in the sequence where the shooters are shown on the range, is that Phil's mount is very "high". Look at the photo. (Apologies to Terry Jordan, I didn't see any copyrights on the photos used, just on the chart. Anyway, free advertising, and I have the chart also.) Kiner's mount looks like the mount above, with the gun high on the shoulder, even above the shoulder. Other shooters I've personally observed seem to have less distance between their cheekbones and, say, their right shoulders. Kiner in the video, and the photo mount (is that Terry?), seem to have the head much more upright and the gun very high.

    Am I seeing this right? Kiner and the photo guy have very disimilar builds, and yet the mounts look remarkably alike.

    Can't shoot this weekend, so I've got a lot of time to think.

    Danny
     
  2. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Danny:

    Yes, the mounts in the photos are correct. The reason high mounts are recommended is that it is best to shoot in the upright position with the head and neck tilted forward and down as little as possible.

    The cheek is then able to make a broader contact with the comb at a point with fewer pain receptors compared to the forward spot that makes contact when the head it tilted forward and down. (The forward-and-down position of the head also forces the eyes to look through the upper portion of the lenses of shooting glasses, which can lead to visual distortion when corrective lenses are being used.)

    Mounting the gun high promotes upright head and neck positions. A second advantage is that barrel rise during recoil is primarily determined by the distance of the gun's pivot point (on the shoulder) below the axis of the bore.

    If the middle of the recoil pad is on the collarbone (rather than the heel of the pad, (which is nearer to the axis of the bore), the barrel rise will be increased. It will be reduced when the heel is on the collarbone and serves as the pivot point because the heel is closer to the axis of the bore (the barrel.)

    As the photographs show, a stock or pad adjusters are being used to allow the upright head and neck positions. Although barrel rise will increase, it is the price shooters with longer necks are required to pay. With professionals using it, the importance of upright head and neck positions becomes quite obvious.

    Rollin
     
  3. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    It's such a waste to open a perfectly good thread like this and then talk trapshooting!
     
  4. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Rollin,

    Thanks for the response. That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure. I'm a new shooter, still, so all shooters should take this with a grain of salt. I see most shooters mount the gun lowish on the shoulder, even if they bring it up to the cheek, and then squash there head down on the comb. Anyone who has the Kiner DVD look at the shot sequences with Kiner following the other shooters. Others have their eyes way down near the comb.

    Not to put to fine a point on it, but it looks like adj comb and adj butt are a must for proper fit and mount, unless the stock is custom made for the shooter. Is that about right, Rollin?

    By the way, I have Rollin's book, but I've yet to cross reference this discussion with the book.

    Danny
     
  5. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Hipshot3.....You need to clench your buttcheeks tighter...your head is falling out of your ass.
     
  6. Gavin

    Gavin Active Member

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    Rollin

    So if I understand your comment about a shooter with a long neck correctly that individual should lower the recoil pad to bring the comb up to the shooter's cheek vice craining forward and downward onto the comb.

    BTW, I purchased you book a few years back and every time I re-read it I lean something new.

    Thanks

    Gavin
     
  7. Smiley

    Smiley Member

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    I would recomend to you to place a small piece of adhesive backed foam rubber on the top of the stock where you place your cheek to give you your correct sight picture as this will then give you a fixed point to place your cheek until you are used to setting you face correctly on the stock
    Paul
     
  8. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    Here's an example of a bad mount!
     
  9. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Danny:

    Not everybody needs a custom stock to be well fitted. Some some guns and some people using then with the correct shooting form, match perfectly. They are a minority but not all that uncommon.

    Gavin:

    Please email me. I have a question for you.

    Rollin
     
  10. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Trap house in pic apears low in prospective to gun mount, target apex and background.
     
  11. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    Oh come on guys!!! That video of the incorrect mount is hillarious!!! Has anybody even watched it???
     
  12. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    It was indeed an incorrect mount. I spit up my coffee. Jake
     
  13. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Great. I start a serious thread about trapshooting, and jerks hijack the thread. I guess I should have titled this "proper way to put a trap shotgun on your shoulder without any possible sexual innuendo." Go play on the Brittany thread or argue about whether God exists, you dopes.

    Danny
     
  14. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Gavin;

    I tried to reply to your message but my server would not recognize your server.

    Rollin
     
  15. Gavin

    Gavin Active Member

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    Rollin
    Just sent you another e-mail.
    Gavin
     
  16. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Gavin;

    When I tried to send a reply, I got the error message, "...one of the recipients was rejected by your server."

    I have no idea what it means but I got the same error message when I tried to communicate with another man a week or so ago.

    Rollin
     
  17. snowbird

    snowbird TS Member

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    My Perazzi was away getting re-blued when the photos for the web site were taken. That is my wife's very short Remington 1100 that I had in my hands that day. I will try to get some more modern pictures up on there with the Perazzi in my hands.

    Terry.
     
  18. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    dmarbell -

    Good thread. Rollin, I need to get a copy of your book. Where is the best place to buy it?

    I like the adjustable butt plate depicted, any idea what brand it is and if it could be fitted to an XT with the factory adjustable comb? My problem seems to be canting the gun, throwing the lower barrel off center. I have another suspicion too, can canting be changed by wearing different clothing, ie, jackets in winter as opposed to t-shirts in summer?

    Lastly, Nyytro's comments regarding when to shoot are well taken. I have read Little's trap shooting book. Little recommends not getting lulled into pulling the trigger just because it feels like its time to (rhythm) but rather to hold off until you obtain the correct sight picture. Got to be quick though, once the target reaches apogee your trap gun set up to shoot rising targets makes it harder to hit a descending target. I tried it Friday night and didn't do well.

    Haven't broken gone 25 straight yet but getting close,

    Mike
     
  19. Gavin

    Gavin Active Member

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    Rollin
    Sounds like it may be problem with you e-mail provider. But, just in case I'll send you another e-mail from my other account.

    Gavin
     
  20. Billster

    Billster TS Member

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    I've been following this thread with interest because, ironically, for the past week or two, in considering the 'discomfort' factors in mount/stance one of my nits is 'scrunching' my head down to the comb. I'll get comfortable with gun placement and the last thing I do is push my face down to the stock and it degrades the natural feel of the mount. I'm interested in raising the gun/lowering the butt plate to achieve what you describe in Kiner's vid. Discussed this with the instructor and he stood at the muzzle end of the gun looking back at me while gun is mounted and said eye alignment is perfect - "leave it alone". Having trained for years in combat/target handgun it's the unwritten law that you RAISE the sights to erect eye level...never drop your head down to the sight picture. I'm thinking the same should apply to shotgun. Anything to alleviate stresses that distract, methinks. So, today I think I'm going to start dropping the buttplate a notch at a time a see how it feels. Then I'll have to concentrate on comb adjustment, but this is fine-tuning now...anything for more broken birds.

    Thanks for posting this. We're at the same learning-curve level I think.

    (Please disregard any sexual innuendos in my post...just re-read it! HAHAHA.)

    Bill Stengel
     
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