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Proper Mount

3K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  Gavin 
#1 ·
As I said in another thread, I just got Phil Kiner's DVD. One thing I noticed, in the sequence where the shooters are shown on the range, is that Phil's mount is very "high". Look at the photo. (Apologies to Terry Jordan, I didn't see any copyrights on the photos used, just on the chart. Anyway, free advertising, and I have the chart also.) Kiner's mount looks like the mount above, with the gun high on the shoulder, even above the shoulder. Other shooters I've personally observed seem to have less distance between their cheekbones and, say, their right shoulders. Kiner in the video, and the photo mount (is that Terry?), seem to have the head much more upright and the gun very high.

Am I seeing this right? Kiner and the photo guy have very disimilar builds, and yet the mounts look remarkably alike.

Can't shoot this weekend, so I've got a lot of time to think.

Danny
 
#2 ·
Danny:

Yes, the mounts in the photos are correct. The reason high mounts are recommended is that it is best to shoot in the upright position with the head and neck tilted forward and down as little as possible.

The cheek is then able to make a broader contact with the comb at a point with fewer pain receptors compared to the forward spot that makes contact when the head it tilted forward and down. (The forward-and-down position of the head also forces the eyes to look through the upper portion of the lenses of shooting glasses, which can lead to visual distortion when corrective lenses are being used.)

Mounting the gun high promotes upright head and neck positions. A second advantage is that barrel rise during recoil is primarily determined by the distance of the gun's pivot point (on the shoulder) below the axis of the bore.

If the middle of the recoil pad is on the collarbone (rather than the heel of the pad, (which is nearer to the axis of the bore), the barrel rise will be increased. It will be reduced when the heel is on the collarbone and serves as the pivot point because the heel is closer to the axis of the bore (the barrel.)

As the photographs show, a stock or pad adjusters are being used to allow the upright head and neck positions. Although barrel rise will increase, it is the price shooters with longer necks are required to pay. With professionals using it, the importance of upright head and neck positions becomes quite obvious.

Rollin
 
#4 ·
Rollin,

Thanks for the response. That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure. I'm a new shooter, still, so all shooters should take this with a grain of salt. I see most shooters mount the gun lowish on the shoulder, even if they bring it up to the cheek, and then squash there head down on the comb. Anyone who has the Kiner DVD look at the shot sequences with Kiner following the other shooters. Others have their eyes way down near the comb.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but it looks like adj comb and adj butt are a must for proper fit and mount, unless the stock is custom made for the shooter. Is that about right, Rollin?

By the way, I have Rollin's book, but I've yet to cross reference this discussion with the book.

Danny
 
#6 ·
Rollin

So if I understand your comment about a shooter with a long neck correctly that individual should lower the recoil pad to bring the comb up to the shooter's cheek vice craining forward and downward onto the comb.

BTW, I purchased you book a few years back and every time I re-read it I lean something new.

Thanks

Gavin
 
#7 ·
I would recomend to you to place a small piece of adhesive backed foam rubber on the top of the stock where you place your cheek to give you your correct sight picture as this will then give you a fixed point to place your cheek until you are used to setting you face correctly on the stock
Paul
 
#9 ·
Danny:

Not everybody needs a custom stock to be well fitted. Some some guns and some people using then with the correct shooting form, match perfectly. They are a minority but not all that uncommon.

Gavin:

Please email me. I have a question for you.

Rollin
 
#13 ·
Great. I start a serious thread about trapshooting, and jerks hijack the thread. I guess I should have titled this "proper way to put a trap shotgun on your shoulder without any possible sexual innuendo." Go play on the Brittany thread or argue about whether God exists, you dopes.

Danny
 
#16 ·
Gavin;

When I tried to send a reply, I got the error message, "...one of the recipients was rejected by your server."

I have no idea what it means but I got the same error message when I tried to communicate with another man a week or so ago.

Rollin
 
#18 ·
dmarbell -

Good thread. Rollin, I need to get a copy of your book. Where is the best place to buy it?

I like the adjustable butt plate depicted, any idea what brand it is and if it could be fitted to an XT with the factory adjustable comb? My problem seems to be canting the gun, throwing the lower barrel off center. I have another suspicion too, can canting be changed by wearing different clothing, ie, jackets in winter as opposed to t-shirts in summer?

Lastly, Nyytro's comments regarding when to shoot are well taken. I have read Little's trap shooting book. Little recommends not getting lulled into pulling the trigger just because it feels like its time to (rhythm) but rather to hold off until you obtain the correct sight picture. Got to be quick though, once the target reaches apogee your trap gun set up to shoot rising targets makes it harder to hit a descending target. I tried it Friday night and didn't do well.

Haven't broken gone 25 straight yet but getting close,

Mike
 
#20 ·
I've been following this thread with interest because, ironically, for the past week or two, in considering the 'discomfort' factors in mount/stance one of my nits is 'scrunching' my head down to the comb. I'll get comfortable with gun placement and the last thing I do is push my face down to the stock and it degrades the natural feel of the mount. I'm interested in raising the gun/lowering the butt plate to achieve what you describe in Kiner's vid. Discussed this with the instructor and he stood at the muzzle end of the gun looking back at me while gun is mounted and said eye alignment is perfect - "leave it alone". Having trained for years in combat/target handgun it's the unwritten law that you RAISE the sights to erect eye level...never drop your head down to the sight picture. I'm thinking the same should apply to shotgun. Anything to alleviate stresses that distract, methinks. So, today I think I'm going to start dropping the buttplate a notch at a time a see how it feels. Then I'll have to concentrate on comb adjustment, but this is fine-tuning now...anything for more broken birds.

Thanks for posting this. We're at the same learning-curve level I think.

(Please disregard any sexual innuendos in my post...just re-read it! HAHAHA.)

Bill Stengel
 
#21 ·
Good morning Danny - Many shooters have a habit of mounting incorrectly. I instruct my shooters to (1) stand relitively erect, (2) bring the gun comb to your cheek bone, and (3) anchor the butt of the gun into your shoulder firmly. Finally, don't hurry the process. If done as described above and not slapped into the shoulder first then drop your face on the comb you eliminate two problems. The first is you can't raise your head off the gun easily and the second is that you don't "tie up" in your back when swinging for angle shots on Post #1 and #5 thereby shooting high and behind the hard angle. Think about it Danny it may help. Shoot well.

Bruce Maxwell
 
#22 ·
Mercedesman...: If you're serious, click on the Website URL above. But don't do it for a day or so. I am rescuing and recovering the Windows XP operating system in a couple of hours and will be out of business until at least early afternoon tomorrow since a Time Warner tech will not be here until tomorrow morning to reinstall my Internet availability.

Gavin: I did not receive your recent message. I also failed to receive one from a fellow in Australia earlier this morning. He had to send a private message on another shooting website.

If you will, please delay sending more messages until later tomorrow. With luck, my OS will be rescued and recovered and Time Warner will have me back on line without problems by then.

Rollin
 
#26 ·
Anyone with the newest Kiner video:

The mount Phil does at the section on dry firing shows what I'm talking about. It's at 1:47:30 on the DVD, Phase 7, Dry Fire Practice. The gun is mounted very high. He also seems to raise his cheek or slightly move it out of the way, mount the gun to shoulder, and then brings cheek back down to level on the comb?

Look at the two times he mounts the gun. Focus on his right eye, and the position it's in before starting the mount, as the gun is mounted to shoulder, and then when cheek is placed on the comb. You'll see he moves his head up and out of the way as he puts the gun on his shoulder.

Does this look like what I'm seeing on the video?

I have been told to bring the comb up to my cheek, and not cheek down to the comb. But if you can determine the proper place on the shoulder for that head-up mount, then move your head out of the way and get that position, then put your head back on the comb, you'd have that mount? Right?

Danny
 
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