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promo powder in cold weather

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by rslus, Nov 18, 2007.

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  1. rslus

    rslus TS Member

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    i just spent 1-2 hours reading about promo powder trying to find a soultion to a occasional blooper in cold weather.

    i have been using promo for the last 2 years and noticed during cold weather i get some shells that sound like "light loads". For example, last year I was loading sts hulls with both remington & winchester 209 primers, claybuster blue 1-1/8 ounce wads and 17.4 grains of promo powder. This year I am basically using the same load but switched to Fiocchi primers and experienced the same blooper results. i tried using another wad, windjammer, with the same results. So, since i had the same results with winchester, remington and fiocchi primers, I ruled out the blooper problem due to primer selection. At this point, I am leaning towards changing to another powder during the cold weather shooting. If it still exists, switch to an oem wad.

    any other suggestions??

    rslus
     
  2. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Some suggestions I picked up at this site from others:

    Kick your load up a bushing;

    Keep your ammo in a heated part of your house:

    Carry your ammo to the club in the passenger compartment of your car or truck, and bring it into the clubhouse when you get there.
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Wads. Use Blue duster or Figure 8. Maybe the Downrange will work too, I have no experience with them. And do not shoot cold shells.

    HM
     
  4. JasonH

    JasonH TS Member

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    I have also used promo for a while, and in all weather, but I load 18.5 gr for singles and 19.5 for handicap (cheddite primer,sts-nitro hull and claybuster wad), I dont have any problems with "light loads" at least as yet. I did seem to have some problems with the winchester primers that seemed to do that once in awhile.....
     
  5. hreinke

    hreinke TS Member

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    Captin: what does the ground wire have to do with bloopers? The only time I had this problem was this year,and I went to a different wad, I was trying to load a 7/8 down range wad in a federal top gun hull, shot half a box of bloopers. Thru away the federal hulls and went back to gun clubs and a Nothing But Dust Green wad with 18grs. and have not had a problem in cold weather with Promo powder.
     
  6. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    trapshooter421,

    One possibility is that your load isn't creating enough pressure to seal a tapered wad in a straight hull. I ran into this sometime back when I tried a TGT-12 wad in a topgun hull. I hope this helps you out.

    ec90t
     
  7. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    RSLUS, do yourself a favor, just buy a bag og Rem. Figure 8 wads, change nothing else, after loading you can put them in the fridge then take them out and shoot em, it;s the wads, been there done that no bloopers! incinerate em!
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This thread raises several points. First, all powders will burn a little slower in cold temperatures. Powders such as Red Dot and Green Dot show less variation at extreme temperatures than most others. Promo is not too bad in cold temperatures, better than many but not as good as Red Dot.

    Loading a tapered wad in a straight walled hull will give pressure variations at all temperatures. The shape of the wad should match the shape of the hull.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. Piper Mac

    Piper Mac Member

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    I would also vote for the wads as being the problem. Used the orange colored Winchester AA wads a few winters ago and had the same problem. Changed wads and problem was eliminated. I would also not recommend storing the shells in a cold environment for very long, either.
     
  10. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    Aren't STS and AA's TAPERED wall hulls?
     
  11. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Blizzard,

    I was addressing trapshooter421 problem. Sorry for any confusion.

    rslus,

    I've never loaded Promo so I have no idea what is causing your bloopers. I learned to stay away from single base powders a while back.

    ec90t
     
  12. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    rslus, last year there were many complaints on this forum, and at my club about Promo and cold weather, especially with Fiocchi primers. I don't care for ClayBuster wads of any kind, so i definitely would lose them.

    If you are still loading STS hulls, your load is a little light. Try bumping it to 18gr and use a Fig-8 wad with a W209 primer and see if that helps. Also, check your crimp depth. It should be an honest .055" deep, or slightly more. Many old timers advocate putting another half turn or so on the crimping die in the winter. Increasing crimp depth will increase pressure, which will result in more consistent loads. Another thing you can do to increase pressure is to go with a wad with a wider base. The Federal 12S3 will increase pressure by about 1,000psi all by itself. I'd not use any wad designed for a straight walled hull, because that's too much of a squeeze.

    Lastly, you could drop your powder charge down and go with a Federal 209A primer. Check the manuals for data.

    If it were me, I'd change powder and wads. For wads stay with the Fig-8 or a Winjammer or DRM Windjammer replacement. If you have lots of STS209 primers, e3 will give superb results in Winter (all year round, actually). I've not tried W209 primers with e3 yet, so I can't advise on that combo.

    If you have mostly W209 primers, then I would highly recommend STS hull, W209 primer, 18.5gr American Select, Fig-8 wad and 1 1/8oz magnum shot.
     
  13. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    I always keep my ammo in my Jockey's in cold weather.
    Hey, I may walk funny going up to the line, but all the bloopers are later that night and not on the trap field.
     
  14. Fraz

    Fraz TS Member

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    This Promo thing - I've been shooting Promo for the past three years in 10 & 20 degree temps with no problem, I use Lighting wads with 16.8 of Promo in the winter 16.5 for 1 oz and 17 -17.2 for 1 1/8 But I use Winchester primers. the ones you are using have caused some problems on the line. also check your wad pressure. I'm not sure about this wad in the dryer thing, might try it if I can get past thw wife. Good Luck Fraz
     
  15. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    I load STS hulls, TGT-12 wads, Win. Primers and 1 oz. #8's and 17 Grains of PROMO. Never had a blooper in cold or any other weather...Bill
     
  16. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    Gotcha ec90t. I didn't see that in 421's post.
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Since I use Rio or Fed 209A primers, and 12SO clone wads in Riefenhauser hulls, combined with higher pressure loads, I do not have bloopers. When I set up a new load, I generally put a few shells in the freezer at the Club and shoot them at the end of the day, preferably in a borrowed gaspipe. The load MUST operate the gun properly. So far, no issues.

    I have not had one blooper with Promo. I prefer Rex I and Solo 1000, and have zero problems with these fine powders.

    Keeping pressures over 9000 psi eliminates many problems, including cold weather performance issues.
     
  18. hreinke

    hreinke TS Member

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    Captin and ec90t

    The wads are straight and so are the hulls but I did load the shells in question on a cold day. it could have been the static thing going on there. I'll either add a ground to the loader or try some static cling on the powder drop tube. Thanks guys
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I would not be so fast on ruling out the primer selection.

    The Fiocchi 616 primers did not work well for me when used with Red Dot or Promo powders at colder temperatures. I had no trouble with Winchester or Federal primers until I got one particular lot of Promo over a year ago. A different lot (newer) gave much better results with the Winchester and Federal primers. The Fiocchi primers did not work well back then and did not fare well when I tried them again recently with different lots of Red Dot and Promo along with the Winchester and Federal primers. I put the shells in the freezer and then test them over a chronograph while they are still cold. The wads that did not perform well will not be mentioned, since I don't have a real conclusion whether it was the wads or something else. I did try several different types of "premium" wads and the Fiocchi primers were unsatisfactory with all of them. My loads were also hot enough that I didn't worry about them being too "light" for good consistency. I will say that I tested mostly 1 ounce loads with all primers, but had poor results with the Fiocchi primer in 1 1/8 ounce loads as well. I will use the Fiocchi primers in warm weather without hesitation and with certain other powders in colder weather. I will not use them in colder weather with Promo or Red Dot.

    The one wad that I will mention having troubles with would be the Green and Blue Dusters about two years ago. The over powder cups would fracture and the shell would sound "off" and the velocity would be more than 100 fps lower than expected. The recovered wads from the "off" sounding loads all had fractures. The company had claimed that they corrected the issues and it was due to a material supply issue. They worked fine in warmer weather. The newest lots of Duster Wads I have used seemed just fine.

    In short, I'd try the Winchester or Federal primers with a newer lot of Promo than you had when you first noticed a problem. There was one particular lot of Promo that did not perform well for me in cold weather, with any primer I tried, except the Federal 209A. The newest Lot of Promo I have still does not appear to work well with the Fiocchi Primers. Fiocchi primers appear to work well with several other powders in cold weather, so it might be some characteristic of the peimer and powder that just doesn't click when the temps go low. Be sure to check the data and adjust the powder charges downward if required for the Federal primers and Rio primers if you use them in place of other primers.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Drew- Promo is not "the old Red Dot before they cleaned it up". Promo is a powder that is blended so that 18 gr of Promo is equivalent to 18 gr of Red Dot. The volume of Promo required to weigh 18 gr can vary from lot to lot. I think Promo is best described as an OEM powder that is available to individual reloaders. Each time Remington gets a load of OEM powder, they have to make adjustments for the density of the powder just as we do with Promo.

    Pat Ireland
     
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