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Promo observations

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by short shucker, Nov 20, 2009.

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  1. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Well the evaluation period is over. This powder has a future on my reloading bench.

    I reloaded a 1lb container, that was generously given to me by one of my shootin' buddies, into various loads ranging from 7/8-1 1/8oz.

    7/8 oz loads. Worked very well for faster (1250 fps+), but lacked consistancy when slowed down. I believe this to be a result of insufficient pressure for consistant burns.

    1oz loads. This powder works very well in all load speeds tested (1180,1235,1290). I did chrono these shells as I had to modify the load data a bit to achieve these speeds. I did this so I could directly compare these to my exsisting shells. The shells were as consistant as any of my other reloads.

    1 1/8 oz loads. It worked like I expected it would. Shells were very consistant and felt recoil was that of any other 1 1/8 oz shell that I've reloaded.

    Barrel residue of these shells was a bit more than what I'm used to, as I've reloaded only Hodgdon powders for the last 5 years. It was only residue as the platic fouling left in the barrel was almost non-existant (Downrange wads only). This is a non-issue because I used one of my 1100's for this evaluation and found the gas area to still be reasonably clean and no problems with cycling after 200+ consecutive shells without cleaning (2 full rounds at the sporting clays course in 3 1/2 hours).

    Sorry guys/gals no pattern testing because of the use of home made #8 shot. I really wanted this powder to fail so I set it up in the worst possible format. My scores were the same as ony other sporting outing, mid 80's.

    I wish there was a little more load data on Alliant's website. I believe this powder to be a lot more flexible than the data suggests.

    The use of this powder and the homemade shot reduces my cost/box by $1 on average. This is a good savings for practice shells.

    I find that this powder works well in my reloaders (Hornady's). I may get around to doing some patterning test in the future just to confirm what I'm seeing in the breaks. It won't be anything as elaborate as what Neil Winston posts on here from time to time.

    ss
     
  2. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <I>"I wish there was a little more load data on Alliant's website. I believe this powder to be a lot more flexible than the data suggests."</i>

    You are aware that Promo is designed to use Red Dot data?

    Drop the same weight Promo charges as Red Dot charges but you will have to experiment to determine what size bushing to use to do that as they will not be the same.

    You will also need to recheck your Promo bushing for weight each time you change to a new batch.

    MK
     
  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Thanks MK.

    I wasn't aware of the direct substitution. The website shows data for each powder, but doesn't mention anything about them being a direct replacement for each other.

    ss
     
  4. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    short shucker- unknown is correct.
     
  5. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

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    Yes, just use the Red Dot data but be sure to weigh your charges for the first few and the weigh them again when you change lot numbers of Promo. It is not consistent from jug to jug.
     
  6. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Ditto on the above, & bushing sizes can vary by 1 or 2 sizes in different lot #s so be (CERTAIN) to weigh each new batch.. I have used several jugs & am very satisfied..

    Ross
     
  7. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    40 pounds out the barrel in the past years and 32 pounds waiting to follow as soon as I finish shooting up my OPRs (other powder reloads). I tried Clays, ClayDot, e3 and American Select. None showed enough(or any)improvement in performance to be worth the extra cost. I clean anyway so who cares about a dirty barrel. There is lot to lot variance so be sure to check your drops with each jug.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  8. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Alliant does allude to the interchangeability of Promo and Red Dot; they just say it without actually saying it:
    <center>
    [​IMG]
    </center>

    MK
     
  9. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

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    One thing I wonder about with Promo. I load a light 16.5 grain load with 1 ounce of shot. When the weather gets colder I have a few bloopers. It has not happened in warm weather. I wonder if I should increase my powder to 17 grains during cold weather and see if it eliminates my occasional mis-fire or blooper?
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Hoosier Daddy

    Your primer might be the problem. I use Winchester or Federal 209A primers without any cold weather issues. I also put half a box in the freezer and keep the other half at room temp and then chronograph them while still cold. I check factory shells that way also. I had a few different primer/promo combinations that were dismal. Some wads may contribute to the problem too.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Quack Shot- As you suggested, some wads could have temperature problems. I have tested the lower priced Winchester orange/gold colored wads at lower temperatures and got very inconsistent results. My local grocery store (Kroger) sells dry ice in nice little containers. It keeps shells cold on my way to the range. I have no idea why I test shells at low temperatures, I do not shoot in low temperatures. The high tomorrow is foretasted as 45 degrees, too cold for me. We have a registered shoot. I will get things ready, set the targets and score. But I do not plan to shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I use Promo and simply let the next load clean the barrel. Works for me.

    Whiz
     
  13. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

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    I agree Whiz. I don't have any problem with Promo being dirty.
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Pat Ireland

    I have two refrigerator/freezers at the club I test my loads at. I walk in, grab five or so and head outside. When they have been done, I get the next batch. I can still find dry ice, but have access to a good supply of Liquid Nitrogen if I really want to lose a few fingers. I try to stay away from that stuff AND any climates where the temps of that stuff would be normal. I've had some loads start to show signs of deterioration as high as 55 degrees. I check the temperatures of the shells with an Infrared Thermometer. Obviously, I don't have the facility to test for velocity AND pressure, so testing loads at higher temps might only tell if there was a marked increase in velocity. I'm more worried about loads performance in cold weather , since they are the ones that really annoy me. I don't load hot enough to worry too much about a temperature increase and any resulting pressure increase. I keep my shells out of the sun and don't lock them up in the car in the summer.

    The WT-12 Western Wads are not great in the cold and the Orange "Clone" is the same problem. I gave up on Duster Wads a few years ago when they started to fracture in moderate weather. They claimed to have a bad batch of raw material, but they weren't too interested to make it right. I've reserved them for warm weather practice loads and gifts for people I don't like. I still have a couple of cases of Blues and Greens.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Quack Shot- I like your attention to detail. Temperature does add another dimension to shell performance and one that is overlooked by most shooters. Forecasted high temperature today is 53 degrees and my local club has a registered shoot. I am not sure that either my shells or I am up to shooting in these bitter conditions.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. RV4driver

    RV4driver TS Member

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    53 degrees...bitter conditions...you guys kill me!

    Seriously, I just found out about cold weather and bunny fart load performance.
    At our recently completed Winter league, I found that my load of Cheddite primer, 700X and 1oz #8 was not what it was at the height of summer! I had to increase lead and raise the barrel to the bird, what a bummer, as it took me a while to figure out what was happening. We had one cold night that saw the voice pull cables take a crap, the trap throw broken bird after broken bird. Those shells sat in my box for 45 minutes as they fixed the hiccups in equipment, while the shells got colder and colder. After reading about it all year, it was an experience to actually see it in action.

    Jeff
     
  17. BL350

    BL350 TS Member

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    Dear Promo users,
    A discussion I had @ the 2009 PSSA state shoot with an engineer from Alliant was very enlightening on PROMO powder. The new data released from Alliant this past summer shows use of a CCI 209M primer with this powder. This primer was RECOMMENDED for any cold weather shooting. A Remington 209 STS primer will function well also in cold weather shooting with PROMO powder. I have also found performance of OEM wads superior to aftermarket wads at reduced temperatures.
    Respectfully submitted,
    Jet Boat Bill ATA Life Member
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    BL350

    Funny you should mention the CCI209M. It's a favorite for cold weather with certain powders, IF you can find the data. Problem is finding enough of them when you want them. As for the primers that don't work, I have a list of load combinations that can be relied upon to produce dismal results every time.

    Pat Ireland,

    I don't know. It was mid 50's here today and the wind was ripping at 12 MPH. Wind chills were off the charts. It was SO bad, I almost wore a Jacket! Even though the weather was so horrible, I still managed to help a bunch of shooters do better than me. Funny part is, there were a bunch of off sounding loads out there today. The ones I inquired about were on my list of loads not to use for colder weather, except for one. I have updated my list accordingly and may actually verify that it actually is a poor performer. Almost all of the questionable loads were left in the car/truck overnight. All of my loads worked well enough to make noise and actually break an occasional target. :) This is near the beginning of the Winter Leagues over here and it may well be that the best loads will help make a winner out of a mediocre shooter. That could be my "tested and proven" reloads, or the 15 year old with the Walmart 4-pack. :)

    RV4driver

    I used to live up North in the colder climates, and you learned real quickly about load performance in cold weather. That's where I learned how to test my loads (Shotgun, Rifle, and Handgun). It's a habit I still have today. I test the factory stuff too, if I'm going to shoot it in the cold. I've seen poor performance out of some loads when it hits the mid-fifties and below.
     
  19. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    I love Promo! I am on about my fourth or fifth keg. I have never had any problems with it. I finished my last keg, and had a few open kegs of Clays and International Clays in the cabinet. I have loaded them up, and going back to Promo. Love the price, and the way it loads. I clean my gun every time I get done shooting, but haven't noticed it being all that dirty anyway.

    Matt Woodson
     
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