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Programs and Moving up in class

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Flench, Jul 8, 2007.

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  1. Flench

    Flench TS Member

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    At a shoot this weekend a shooter won their class on Sat and then today the club was moving them up in class. I thought they couldn't do this unless it was posted in the program.

    I couldn't find the rule in the Rulebook. Am I wrong?

    Doyal Kirby
     
  2. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    I don't know.
     
  3. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    I don't know.
     
  4. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Well, theoretically you are supposed to be able to win your class and theoretically you are in that class because you are not able, based on your average, to win in the next class up. Consequently, advancing a class for winning singles is the same faulty logic for advancing HC yardage for winning. Winning does not usually demonstrate attained and sustained proficiency. It only demonstrates an event shot in excess of the average expectation for the winning shooter sufficient to exceed all the other above average results of the other competitors.
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It's not against the rules, Doyal, as far as I know. Can you cite a rule that the practice violates? As CKid says, there's no logic to it; it's just used to spread the trophies out and in a long shoot can have big negative consequences. At the Grand there is no automatic move up in prelims, but there is in Grand week, which is the best or worst of all possible worlds, depending on how you look at it.

    Neil
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A club can reclassify as shooter at any time.
    Neil- Even during the preliminary days at the Grand, the shoot history of every winner is reviewed by the CHC. As a result of this review a few may be reclassified. It is not an automatic "bump up" but simply a judgment call.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Flench

    Flench TS Member

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    Thanks Guy's I thought it was supposed to be published in the program before they could move you up a class for a win.

    Doyal Kirby
     
  8. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Penalty classifications are to be posted, If i read the conducting a shoot portion of rules book correctly.
     
  9. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    section III-B
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    section III-B
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I agree with Neil. Re-classifying a shooter, who was correctedly classified to begin with, just because he wins in a class that he was supposed to be able to win in, is not rational.
     
  12. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    7 day shoot. Three singles events. Same class C shooter wins all three events. Now what is fair about this?

    The W/T column on your paper ATA card is used to help classify shooters. Why would Wins or Ties for wins not be used as a shoot is in progress?

    Advance in class is by far the best procedure to use over multiple day shoots.
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean if I win the Veteran class will I get moved up to Senior Vet.

    Don
     
  14. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Yeah Don, and if you win Senior Vet you get moved to "Completed Careers".

    If a Class C shooter wins his class 3 days straight, that is what he is supposed to be able to do. He is not supposed to be able to win B class based upon his average or he would already be in B class. So where is the logic in taking him out of the class in which he is supposed to be competitive and putting him in one that he supposedly is not? Plain dumb.
     
  15. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Michigan does this and I've gotten caught by it twice in the last two years, both times at their summer Handicap shoot (not being held this year).

    I was B class in singles and on the first day both years I won B class singles with a 98, which is a once in a while occurance for me (92 avg in 16's back then). I won B class mostly because of the small crowd on Thursday, but my win got me moved up to A class for the last three days which pretty much eliminated any chance of winning a trophy in singles for the rest of the week.

    However, I'm not complaining, I did win a trophy and I'd rather shoot 98 and lose in A class than 96 and win in B.

    Scott
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    In a post above I mentioned that automatic moveups are a problem in long shoots. Here's why; keep in mind that there are no automatic (but as Pat notes, individual examination) moveups in prelim week at the Grand because:

    Let's consider the Grand. Prelim week has let's say six singles events. I wouldn't have a big problem with moving a winner up, but the policy is - and has to be - to move up wins and ties and ties are the problem. In that week, many A-class singles shooters will break 100 and be moved to AA, effectivley moving them to the "also attending" column in T&F. It's worse for AA, bad for every class really since you can be moved without winning anything. That's nuts.

    Neil
     
  17. Flench

    Flench TS Member

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    GUYS THE QUESTION I AM ASKING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING MOVED UP AT A SHOOT. The question is doesn't it need to be written in the program that winners and ties will be moved up in class........

    Doyal Kirby
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- I stand as an example of the point you made in your last post. At the last Grand in Vandalia on one preliminary day I broke the singles to tie for class A and the same day somehow I shot a 98 in handicap. I did not qualify for a shoot off with 98 that day but it did earn a 1.5 yard punch and removed me from consideration of a reduction for two years. The singles score did result in bumping me up to AA. The next day (first day of the Grand), I broke the singles again winning my carry over shoot off for A and I tied that day for AA. That automatically bumped me up again into AAA. I clearly do not belong in class AAA. For the rest of that Grand, I was an "also attended". Not a big problem for me, I also attended 32 other Grands.

    But, I won a trophy at the last Grand in Vandalia, shot some good scores and I was happy.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    Could you not say that by moving those shooters out of D, C, B, A, AA that shot the 100, or whatever the highest score was, into the next higher class then left those in the vacated class that honestly belonged there? Some consideration has to be given to those that do not shoot the highest score in their class. Looks to me like it would be fairer to move 3 (or whatever number) of people with the highest score up so that the remaining 25 (or what ever number) would then have a chance that they wouldn't have with the underclassed (known ability) shooter remaining in their class with them.
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Am I reading you right, Southbend, that the shooters getting the winning and tying score did not "honestly belong there?" Do you really think that every winner is "underclassed?"

    Neil
     
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