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Problems with Fed. 209A primers

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jbmi, Jan 13, 2013.

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  1. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I've been reloading for 8 years and have always used Fiocchi primers, mayber 60-70K so far. Used them in all of the Remington hulls and have less than a dozen FTF in those 60-70K loads.
    I bought about 10 flats of Federal Gold Medal when they had their rebate program, so I thought I'd better buy some Federal primers to go with them, what a mistake.
    I have loaded everything over the past 8 years on MEC9000 press and the once fired Federal hulls and primers are butter smooth during the reloading but I bet I get at least 8 FTF out of each 100 rounds I reload.
    I've checked each FTF and have shown all of them to the crew that I shoot with. The thing we notice on each of the FTF is the center part of the primer, (where the firing pin hits) sits just a few thousants of an inch deeper than the ones that go bang. On the shells that fire I get a really nice deep indent but the FTF have just a very light dent.
    I've shot them out of both my Kolar and my 90T and both have experienced this problem.
    Has anyone else seen this problem with Federal 209A's ?


    jbmi_2008_030358.jpg
     
  2. shotgunner50

    shotgunner50 Member

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    I have had the same problem with Federals both in new shells and reloads and after trying several things found two things contributing to the problem. The federal primers are rounded and if your firing pin is not hitting dead center you will have misfires. The only trapgun I had this problem with was my Browning BT 100 and the firing pin hole is off center. My XT and model 12 will fire them fine. Hope this helps.
    M Taylor
    Shotgunner 50
     
  3. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have had that problem with Federal 209As. The Federal 209A primer cup appears to me to be set just a little deeper than Winchester, Remington, Fiocchi, etc. primer cups. Having said that, compairing the indentation from the firing pin strike on one that doesn't fire with the indentation on a primer that does fire can be misleading. The pressure and set back from firing the shell causes the primer cup to move back around/against the firing pin making the indentation appear deeper.
     
  4. plux001

    plux001 Member

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    Same experience here. I quit using them....

    Paul
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Every manufacturer that mass produces small little gizmos have problems from one time or other. Federal is no different. How they handle their problems is how you finally judge them. I've had shell problems from all of the major manufacturers and all of them have made good. Have patience.
     
  6. southjblue

    southjblue Active Member

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    I'v used fed primers for many yrs---Never had a problem---George@SJB
     
  7. Carmen

    Carmen Member

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    I have use Federal primers for years without a problem. This last sleeve has been giving me a lot of lite hits lately. Must be a bad batch.
     
  8. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Did you try them a second time and did they go off?

    Ajax
     
  9. Shooting Sailor

    Shooting Sailor Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it my eyes or what, but the middle shell, showing the light hit, seems to show a misshapen firing pin head. To me, it looks like it has a raised center with deeper indents on the top and bottom. I would have a good look at the head of the firing pin to see if, perhaps there is a problem with it; worn, chipped, etc. I wqas at a shoot today, and a young fellow was getting light hits on Federal factory shells. When we looked at the lightly hit primers, we could see something like the picture above, but more clearly, indicating the firing pin had a misshapen head.

    I am having the same problem of occasional light hits with Cheddite and Remington primed reloads in my Cynergy. A friend gave me a Wolf spring to try in my gun, and suggested I give the firing pin hole a good cleanout, as well, in case a bit of gunk is holding the pin back on occasion.
     
  10. bkt514

    bkt514 Active Member

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    I have used the Fed 209 primer for close to 10,000 rounds and have had 2 mis-fires that I recall.
     
  11. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    The strike pattern on the middle shell is from two hits. After the FTF the first time I rotated the shell and tried a second time. You're looking at two strikes.
     
  12. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I have loaded thousands. Thats all I used for 30 years. Never a fail to fire. Your guns are either striking lite or yiou are seating them so deep they are concave would be my guess. The only primers I ever had that FTF were Nobels and I gave 4500 away, Try CCI Mags, they are identical to the Federals in load data
     
  13. notquite27

    notquite27 TS Member

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    In my experience it has a lot to do with the firing pin length of your gun. In my case, and in the case of many of the members of the club where I normally practice, Fed 209A's will not give reliable ignition in Ljutics or Silver Seitz. Kolars, Brownings, K and P guns don't seem to have this problem. I shoot a Ljutic for singles and caps, and called Yakima about the ignition problems. Their solution was not to use Fed 209A's, Rio's, or Fiocchi primers. I've shot thousands of Cheddites through the Ljutic without a misfire, but can rarely get through a round with the Fed's, Rio's, or Fiocchi's without at least one dud. My Perazzi doubles gun, on the other hand, digests everything.
     
  14. Dennis DeVault

    Dennis DeVault Well-Known Member

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    Just to throw my two cents worth into this. I have letters in my file from all the major brands of shells that having quality issues. Federal has had problems in the past with the inner cup not being seated into the bottom of the outer housing. When this happens and the primer is struck the inner cup moves forward taking the inertia out of the firing pin. When the cup moves energy is lost and the result is a light hit and a primer that is now too deep to set off on the second hit. I have spoken with the head of QC for Federal and his final coment to me was they are not concerned with these issues. If they make the shells cheap enough people will buy them and it is the gun that always gets the blame for the problem. I also have a very good friend that two years ago had three hundred miss fires in ten flats of new STS shells. He cut a couple of shells open to find that no primer mix in the primer. He called Remington and they ask for the lot number and also how many he had purchased. It was a whole skid. Remington sent down a new skid of shells and picked up the old shells. My frend ask the person what they were going to do with the old shells. The driver told him they would go back to the plant break down the remaning skid and put a couple of cases on other skids just mixing them in until they were all gone. Again the factory's are not going to eat problem shells they will sell them and go on. Honor and quality have left many companies in this country and it is what it is. Also remember that the dent in the shell primer comes from set back or coining when the shell is fired. Accrding to Sammi it requires a .009 dent to make a shell go off. I have had shells with an .018 dent that have failed to fire. As the demand for larger profits occur factories are going to cut corners to make the share holders happy. Steel based shells, steel faced primers the list goes on and on. Sorry for the rant this is just a sore subject for me.

    Dennis DeVault
     
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