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Problems with 700X

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by brownk80, Oct 21, 2012.

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  1. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    Anyone having problems with 700X lately? I have used it for years and yet in the last four 8lbs containers I have bought two of them have thrown lite charge weights. I have checked my machine (hydraulic Spolar), and even re-measured the powder bushings to make sure they are the correct ID. I am not talking about have a .1 or .2 variance, I am talking about having to go from a .429 to a .450 to drop 17grs. This new lot drops almost 2 full grains lite. Is there something wrong with IMR quality control?

    Thanks,

    Brownk80
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Just don't use it in a Krieghoff.
     
  3. gordy h

    gordy h Member

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    700X is never the same for me I have to change bushings on my MEC just about every 8# jug. but I love it. Butch H
     
  4. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Try to ground your loader and put something on the loader to vibrat the powder in the tube. I have done both to my loader.
     
  5. hwy13

    hwy13 Member

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    Hello BrownK80,

    What method do you use when changing jugs ? How do you know when one
    is all used up & the new batch is ready to start ?

    What I am doing using clays is just pour in more powder when the plastic bottle
    is 1/2 empty, I only re-load to 1150 fps, I can't tell when the old 8 lb
    canister is gone, & the new 8 lb jug is being used.

    I check weight often on my scales - once every 50 shells - my MEC 9000
    is less than .5 variation between 8 lb jugs . I really don't think I can
    tell if a shell is 1125 or 1175 .

    How did you catch the difference in drops ? Everyone says check each new batch
    of powder. What is the best method to do this ?

    Thanks.
     
  6. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    I have a small electic motor out of a squirrel cage fan that I mounted to my mec 9000. I added a screw and nut on the end of the shaft. By adjusting the nut back and fourth on the bolt I can adjust the amount of vibration. The drops are very accurate from on drop to another. I have used 700 probably 20 yrs. and always like it but I have found from time to time I have changed from a 29 to a 32 bushing and back again from lot to lot.
     
  7. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar experience since Hodgdon bought IMR. Have used 700X since they changed it from the old single base Hi-Score. Bought an 8#er of 700X last year and like brownk80 had 1&1\2 ----2gr. difference. Never had that problem until now. Price went up quality control went down, this jug does shoot just fine. Still have an unopened 4#er from 10 or 15 yrs ago, when it's gone will probably go to RD or maybe Promo. At least Alliant tells you to check every 8# jug of Promo when you open it. It's kind of a pain to have to fiddle and change bushings every time you open a different jug, but for the price difference I guess I can do that as I get about 3500+ shells from an 8#er. Ross Puls
     
  8. Harley Lekvold

    Harley Lekvold TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I was going to wait until Monday, after I called Hodgon again to ask this question on this forum, but the topic is correct. I have been using 700X for over 30 years and have used at least 15 12 lb kegs during that time. I recently purchased 4 8 lb kegs (JULY).I emptied my current 12 lb keg and opened 1 of the 8 lb jugs. It looks totally different from all the 700X I have used in the past. IE, no yellow flakes. I called Hodgon customer service and the guy I spoke to said it is just fine to use. He did not ask for any lot number or any other info. I am going to call them again in the morning, but since this post is about 700X, I thought I would ask the question. Does 700X not have the yellow flakes any more? Thanks in advance for any answers. Harley
     
  9. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    The adjustable bar solves your problem.
    Clyde
     
  10. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    Thanks for all the responses. I use a hydraulic Spolar which has a vibrator on the primer feed. I also check my drops weights every time I use a new container of powder so that is how I picked up this problem. I don't have a problem if one lot drops say 17.2 and the next lot drops 17.6 or so, but I do have a problem when what should be 17.2 is suddenly 19. That is too much differce in pressures to suit me. Obviously I have to change bushings but that is a pain in the butt and I would think that IMR would have someway to maintain better quality control. If they can't or won't I will change powders.

    I guess the only option to to go to Promo or Titewad or something like that if I can't trust 700X anymore.

    hwy13: When I run down to the last say 3 inches of powder in my tube I empty it into the next full keg and mix it very well by shaking in well for a minute or two. That assumes I am using the same powder. I have never had a problem doing this but I don't mix powders either just as a safety precaution.

    Harvey: I would be interested in what they had to say or if they just blow you off. It doesn't surprise me that some guy on the other end of the phone would say it was safe to shoot, he isn't the guy behind the gun. But, that is not the question...the question is why does this happen and don't anyone tell me that that kind of variance (around 11 or 12%) can't have a negative impact. If you load a receipt and just add 12% in a pistol or rifle cartridge you can have a very nasty surprise so some clown on the other end of a phone, who would deny he ever said that if asked in court, doesn't make me comfortable. Let me know what they say if they have an answer.

    Thanks all

    Brownk80
     
  11. SPACE GUN

    SPACE GUN Member

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    I changed from 700x (shot it for over 20 years) switched to promo 3 years ago and couldn't be happier! The last 8# jug I bought was this Past June $73.00.
     
  12. Dougbbbb

    Dougbbbb TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Bought 2 8 # containers a few months ago one in PA the other in NJ. I too noticed a lighter drop 1 grain with the spolar and no yellow flakes. Tonight I opened the other 8# this one has the yellow flakes and no light drops.

    Doug
     
  13. krieghoff80

    krieghoff80 Member

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    You are going to get that with every powder made......reason?= the moisture content .....
    This is for everyone .....every time you open a new can from a different lot # you should ALWAYS weigh it.......I have had one can drop a full 1 1/2 grs.......and others only 1/2 gr. ......teach this to your friends and new shooters.....good shooting everyone......eric
     
  14. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    I brought this up about dehumidification/moisture for discussion a few months ago as I had the same light weight drops but no signficent power loss ?? Many different answers . Using a dehumidifier may have been the reason for my problem so I stopped using it . I`m out of 700X now and have to buy another 8# container so I will check that one when I get a chance . One thing to consider is in an 8# container , having to go to a larger bushing to get the same effect of your shells , you will get far less boxes of shells than you previously were getting with the weight difference per shell . Personaly I only shoot 1 oz shells and load 15.6 gr and haven`t changed bushings in many years
     
  15. Ron Reiber

    Ron Reiber TS Member

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    To begin to answer the 700X bulk density dispute, I must first state the specifications for 700X are the same as far back as the DuPont version. It simply has not changed. I reviewed the lot numbers for 2012, which should cover all the comments listed herein, and all are in specification. Such problems as those listed here occur due to loading variations, such as handle operational forces, static electricity or the conditions the powder has taken on or given off due to storage (humidity and temperature). I have a Spolar loader as well as MEC loaders, and know I must check weights each time I change lot numbers. With a standard of +/-5%, you will change bushings. Not to the extent listed herein, but you will change them. I do! NEVER mix lot numbers of powder, and NEVER leave powder in your loader over night or several days. The powder takes on the conditions of the room, and any powder with Nitroglycerin attacks the plastic in your hoppers. Always store powder in its original container. I DO!! Static electricity has a nasty effect on powder drops, so use clothes dryer sheets to wipe out your hoppers, wipe the mouth of the powder jugs, and wipe down the powder drop tube. Watch closely how you operate the handle on your press. One day your operation may give the 17.5 grain charge you expect, and the next, gives 17.9, all with the same components you used the day before.

    Sorry, but any variation in 700X is the same as all lots in the past, and as such, there is something in your operation or storage conditions causing the problem. Do remember to not mix lot numbers, and not keep powder stored in the hoppers of your loader!

    Also, if you need help, call us, we will get you on the right track!

    Good Shooting!
    Ron Reiber
    Product Manager
    Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester Powder Co.
     
  16. Bill Roberts

    Bill Roberts Active Member

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    Very good info Ron!

    Thx Bill
     
  17. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    Thanks Ron!!

    I have kept my orders of 700X around 4lbs per year I may get a difference in the drops from different batches Maybe a little but I just will change the bushing accordingly and have had consistant reloads out of each batch. My use of this powder won't change.
     
  18. hwy13

    hwy13 Member

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    Hello Ron Reiber,

    I know that there is more than one way to do this, how do you change from
    one lot # to another lot # in your re-loaders ? So that you can check weight?

    What do you do when you are almost empty ? When the powder is almost gone ?
    When it is time for another jug ? Keep reloading tell there is no powder in the hull ? Stop reloading & clean the hopper and pour in a fresh lot # ?

    Thanks,
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Funny how with PB powder I never empty my tubes, wipe 'em with dryer sheets and lot # variations are next to nil. I do run my humidifier constantly. I'm also anal about powder drops and my digital scale is around 2' from my Spolar. I gave up on 700-X many years ago when drop consistency was scary bad. Red Dot can be awful too. If you want to load a powder with the most variation try 800-X.

    And ya know what? The targets never know it!!
     
  20. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Ron,

    Why do you say not to mix different lot numbers.

    My standard operating procedures when I get to the end of a lot is to; set the last ~4 ounces aside, weigh the drops of new lot and change bushing if necessary, dump the last ~4 ounces of the old lot in the new keg and mix thoroughly. I can't see how mixing ~4 ounces of the same power with 8-12 pounds of another lot of the same powder would hurt anything?

    Michael
     
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