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Problems w/ Claybuster CB 2100-12 wads LOT #060491

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jennifer, Nov 14, 2009.

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  1. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Just curious - has anybody had any problems with their CB 2100-12 wads, specifically lot #060491, esp. with finer powders? I've been loading these for almost 10 years, first with Clays then Titewad for the last two years. When I received this particular lot (060491), I began to have bloopers (grossly inconsistent speeds, crud down the bbl, and unburned powder in the hull). Thinking it was the powder, primers or the hulls I tried a lot of different things, but after several weeks of fiddling, today I confirmed it was the wads when I loaded a box using the old wads I had before ordering these. The old wads worked just fine, as they had for many years.

    The load is FGM hull, CB2100 wad, 1 oz shot, W209 primer and Titewad powder (17.5 - 18 gr).

    The Federal hulls and wads work OK with the heavier grained 700x I have, and the Titewad works OK in a 7/8 oz AA load using WAA12L wads.

    Jennifer
     
  2. samiam03

    samiam03 Member

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    Isn't the 1 oz wad from claybuster CB1100-12?

    Sam
     
  3. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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  4. K-Hornet

    K-Hornet Member

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    Been using this wad for the last few years with 700x and switched to clay dot just this summer. Found I have cleaner and better burns. Works well on 16's, dooubles and short yd 23 (just moved from the 22 last month)

    FGM hulls- CB 2100 wad- F 616 primer- 1oz. 8's- 17.5-18 gr. clay dot

    Al
     
  5. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    You could move to a hotter primer, or use more powder, say 19 grains. Or, do both.

    Are you getting a full powder drop, with each load? Are your loads a full one ounce?
     
  6. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    If your problem started with a specific numbered batch it only makes sense to call Claybuster in Kentucky @ 800-922-6287 and talk to them rather than to post here and hope somebody knows something. Even if someone does, they can't do anything about it; Claybuster might.

    MK
     
  7. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    MK I'm so sorry to have posted what you might think an unneccessary thread which might further clutter up this site. I am going to call Claybuster Monday but I thought there was a possibility that somebody else might have had the same problem and this post could possibly help them, if they were struggling to figure out what was causing their bloopers. This post wasn't meant to help me much except my curiosity.

    Longshooter, yes I tried hotter loads, checked the drops of both shot and powder carefully, etc. With my Spolar it's a bit harder to get inconsistent charges, compared to my old MEC 9000s chronically sticky charge bar. With the hotter loads, the same result happened with the new wads and in some cases worse results, i.e. flames coming out of the bbl because of all the blow-by. I had absolutely no bloopers with the old wads - I'm just glad I still had some. The Titewad also works excellent in a different hull and wad (AA hull, WAA12L wad w/ 7/8 oz charge). Take the new wads out of the equation and everything works fine, as it has been for years.

    I should have been more specific - this thread was meant to help anybody else out there having the same problem, and frankly I was curious to see if there was anybody else. Maybe it's just me, and throught my life, that wouldn't be the first time.

    Jennifer
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Jennifer, carefully mic the outside dimensions of old and new wads. It sounds like powder is migrating past the wad, which would cause exactly what you are describing.
     
  9. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    wireguy that's exactly what we suspect, but they mic out the same. Whatever it is, it must be really hard to see. There must not be a good seal over the powder, but mic-ing out the old and new wads shows nothing except that they are all out of round, which seems to be common according to Mr. Spolar and other reloaders I've talked to. And Carter reminded me that mic-ing out plastic wads isn't exactly a NASA endeavor. My husband said he'd take a closer look with his mics but for now there's just nothing obvious. All I know is the old wads work fine, as well as the tens of thousands we've bought over the years.

    I suspect this recipe is just one of those situations where a slight defect in the wad seal and the fine grain of the powder combine in a negative way. I've shot this recipe for 9 years, except that the first 7 years was using Clays, without this ever happening. Clays is a bigger flake, meters better, burns better, so that makes sense. I don't believe I'll be buying any more Titewad for the Fed GM hull and CB-2100 wad, but it works awesome in my 7/8 oz. AA hull recipe.

    Thanks, Jennifer
     
  10. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    Shoot a few into an area where the wads can be recovered and check the wads that were bloopers to see if they are breaking up. Duster wads had a run a few years ago that were causing bloopers and the over powder cup was breaking up upon firing.
     
  11. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    I'll try that - although the wads work fine with 700x. Thanks for the idea. Jennifer
     
  12. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Jennifer

    The issue with the Duster wads was usually encountered at temperatures under 50 degrees or so. The wads would fracture, usually through the over powder cups and some petals would actually shear off. They explained it was an issue with the raw materials that the wads were made from. From your description, it does sound like you are experiencing a similar issue. As ou.3200 suggested, a few recovered wads could tell you a lot. I would be certain to call Claybuster and see if they have encountered other instances like yours. If so, I'd be sure to ask them to replace the wads if they are found to be defective. I've used a LOT of these same style wads and have not experienced an issue, but I can't say if I have the same lot number on hand. I'll take a look when I go back down to my dungeon tomorrow.

    Thanks for the heads up!
     
  13. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Check the size, shape, depth and plasticity of the seal area. With a powder as fine grained as titewad in a straight walled hull, if you don't have a perfect seal it is going to migrate fast. Cut down a few hulls and mic them at the seal area inside. That dimension and the wad seal dimension might explain a lot. Frankly I would go to something like Rem Gun Club hulls for that small of a load.
     
  14. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    To make it easier for their wads to slide past the AAHS basewad, they put a small taper on the bottom of the OP cup of some of their wads. Maybe that's a problem.
     
  15. powderburn

    powderburn Member

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    Jen,
    There might be a difference in the inner diam ofthe hull itself. These companies are cheapening their hulls by going thinner and thinner all the time. The wad might be fine. If you have any new hulls of what you are loading, check for bad seals with a bright flashlight next to a loaded hull to see if powder is leaking up into the cushion area of the wad. Just another thing to check. -powderburn
     
  16. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Also check the wad guide - better yet, replace it.

    Don Verna
     
  17. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Thanks for the info everybody, all good ideas.

    Don, when you say the wad guide are you talking about the shot drop tube/wad pusher or the wad fingers? Both look to be in good condition. Two out of three of my reload recipes work just fine - it's just these new wads that are problematic.

    On the hull dia., the hulls I'm using are all from the year 2000 when I shot a whole bunch of factory shells then. But just for %*ts and giggles I loaded up some of the newer Federal Premium hulls and had the exact same results.

    Cutting down some of the hulls is a good idea - thanks everybody! Jennifer
     
  18. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    flincher, the old wads are out of round also, though. And after talking to both Carter Spolar and Claybuster, according to them that's not unusual. I have a bag of Winchester WAA12Ls. One of the wads mic's out to .7075 on one side and .6985 on the other. Another one measures .701 and .706.

    Here's a sample of the "bad" CB-2100 wads:

    .729/.712; .729/.715; .714/.733; .718/.733; .714/.731 so the five sample wads average .0164 out of round - worse than the WAA12L wads.

    Here's a sample of the "good" CB-2100 wads:

    .717/.732; .716/.731; .714/.732; .716/.735; .716/.733 so the five good sample wads average .0168 out of round - even worse!

    I know only sampling 5 wads isn't the best so I'll check more of them. But you can see that even the Winchester brand wads are off but not nearly as bad.

    I'm supposed to call Claybuster back on Monday and talk to their "guru" who is on vacation right now. J
     
  19. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    Well I talked to Claybuster today and they didn't seem surprised about my dilemma. Ron Bugg said that they had made some changes prior to my new lot being mfgd but weren't aware of any specific problems with the Titewad until now. He said they're talking to Hodgdon about reformulating their recipes but I'm not sure what effect that would have - this load with this lot# just won't work with the batch of Titewad I have.

    At our turkey shoot last weekend, one of the shooters who had been reading up on my saga, Jeff, came up to me and said "Can I tell you something? Get rid of those F*$&@^# Claybuster wads" and get some Downrange wads. I had tried the pink 7/8 DR wads but the petals kept catching on the shot drop tube. The machine is hydraulic so it only goes one speed and I got irritated with having to stick my finger in there to make sure the wad was propped just right. Sticking fingers anywhere near a hydraulic machine is ill advised.

    I'll probably take Jeff's colorful advice. I ordered one bag of the orange 1 ounce downrange wads to see if I still have the same problem. In the meantime, I'll use up the rest of the claybuster wads with the 700x that I have. It works fine.

    Case closed... I think... Jennifer
     
  20. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Jennifer,

    There is always the "Original" Federal 12S0 wad. Hard to beat, but a bit more costly. Unfortunately, Downrange has not made a direct clone of that wad. They do have the replacement for the 12S3, which is an excellent wad. I don't use the XXL series, since they have been more problematic for me to get setup for. Some people seem to like them, so hope they work well for you.
     
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