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Problems w/ cheap primers in Kolar guns?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeet_man, Apr 9, 2009.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else have problems using off-brand primers in Kolar guns? I've tried Wolf primers, they were horrendous (approx 1/4 to half wouldn't go off on the first pull of the trigger). To be fair though, other people that bought them with me on the 25k order from Recobs have been having trouble, just not to the extent I have. Then I switched to Fiocchis, still having maybe 1-2 not go off on the first pull per hundred. The gun has just had the trigger group completely redone at kolar (new mainsprings, ect), new firing pin springs in both barrels, and a new firing pin in the bottom barrel. No problems whatsoever w/ name brand primers. Anyone else have similar problems in kolar guns, or maybe I just got some junk primers. Now that "cheap" primers have come up in pricing, the savings is now only $20-$30/case, so i'll just go back to name brand primers, its not worth the hassle and FRUSTRATION LOL

    Shells are loaded on a 9000G, any chance I could be seating the primers too deep??

    Interestingly enough, my friend shoots Fiocchis through his kolar with no problems, and I shot them through my old kolar w/ no problems, maybe my new (to me) gun just doesn't like them.
     
  2. Mike Hessong* (MH*)

    Mike Hessong* (MH*) Active Member

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    Ian,

    I ran into a problem shooting Cheddites in my K-80 a few years ago. I know some people have said they never had a problem with them in hundreds of thousands and some Browning people will tell you they had to replace firing pins every couple of thousands shells. I started getting "pierced" primers and the arc-flash was so concentrated that it contunued to erode the firing pin and that just made things worse. The first 5000 Cheddites I only had a few (maybe 5 or 6) pierced primers, but the 2nd brick of primers, I had enough of them I ended up changing out 2 different firing pins, so I said then and there, that the cost of name-brand primers (even though more by far than cheapies) were really cheaper in the long-run. I care for my K-80 enough to not continue to put French crap through it.

    In your case, there are a lot of things that could make this happen as you describe. If the primer is too deep, the firing pin could have already have expended its energy before getting to hit solidly enough to fire it. The same could happen if the primer was not set deep enough. The raised primer wouldn't allow for the firing pin to build up its inertia and hit with enough force to ignite it. There is also the possibility that the the cover of the primer (for a better word for it) is maybe a little "thicker" by only mils and that makes the firing by impact affected. I know quite a few years ago a group here in Victoria made a bulk buy of Remington primers and the whole group had problems with no-fires, and made for a lot of upset folks and I don't think any of them have given Remington a second chance. I went back to Winchester and really don't like paying premium prices for the name-brand, but it's still far cheaper that what it would cost due to screwing up my guns internals.

    Good luck,

    Mike* (MH*)
     
  3. LDAdd

    LDAdd TS Member

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    290
    I have been having some of the same experiences with my "new-to-me" Kolar combo. In summary, shells I have been loading the same for years and shooting them in seven different 12 ga. guns wouldn't fire reliably in the Kolar (10-15% misfires, but always fires on the second attempt) and this is in both the single and O/U barrels, with current Fiocchi 616 primers. I was able to reduce but not eliminate this problem by seating the primers (Mec) as "softly" as possible. New Estates fire without problems. Even though I've since returned the gun to Kolar for the "Annual fix-up and once over", returning with the statement "Adjusted Firing Pin Portrusion", it still doesn't reliably fire the leftover shells loaded before adjusting the primer seating. It has been firing Cheddites and some older Fiocchi 615 primers reliably. I have concluded that while the gun may be a little sensitive to primer seating depths, I may have gotten a LOT of primers having harder or thicker striking surface. I have been using Fiocchi primers for the last 5-7 years without these problems, but of course not with this Kolar. Cheddites have since been OK as stated above. I still have 10K or so Fiocchi in my stock and will continue to use them, but will use Cheddites in the future and for "serious" use.

    I will add that prior to returning the gun to Kolar, I cleaned the firing pin bores thououghly and, upon the suggestion of John at Kolar, clipped two loops from the pin rebound springs, all to no avail. I do consider the case closed at this point due their work and seating primers "gently".

    Larry Addison
     
  4. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Mike,
    The same thing happened to me. I had to replace the firing pin on a K-80.

    The primers worked fine in my gf's BT-99 - go figure?

    Fio's did not have the puncturing problem but 2-3% FTF on the first strike.

    I am back to using Winchesters. Seems dumb to try to save less than $.01 per shell in a $15k gun.

    We do some crazy things sometime.

    Don Verna
     
  5. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    Over the past 1 1/2years I have put 15K of Fiocchi and 10K (so far) of Wolf through my Kolar combo without a single misfire. My Kolar leaves/left a deep dent in each of the primers mentioned. I reload them on a MEC 9000 and us all the different color Rem. hulls along with the newer AA, and sometimes even a few Top Gun/Estate. I have another 15K of Wolf to go.
    I had a Browning Plus a few years ago that would not fire the bottom barrel about 20% of the time with my reloads, a longer firing pin solved that issue for me.
     
  6. okiefarmer

    okiefarmer Member

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    I have used at least 50,000 of the Nobel sport primers with my Beretta DT10 and never a problem. I recently bought a Kolar Max TA and the top barrell misses around 5%. It never fails with the winchesters or new. I suspect these are not as concave as winnies. I will have Kolar look at my firing pin but I suspect I will have to change primers. That is sad because I really like the Nobels for practice and short stuff and I like the savings.
     
  7. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    I too had problems with Noble Sport in my Kolar. Bout US and OU. No problem with Cheddite, some problem with Fiocchi, won't use the anymore either. My Seitz has no problem shooting what ever you feed it. My wifes Kolar does not seem to have the problem mine does. Jake
     
  8. ks5shooter

    ks5shooter Member

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    Own 2 Kolars, a Ljutic and a Kreighoff and never a misfire with Winchester 209's.I dont chance it,I stay with what works.Not worth saving 20 bucks on 5000.......Don
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, I've never had a problem with Rio primers in my Perazzi, but, 25% of Remington Gun Clubs, will show light strikes. The gun will digest STS shells or primers without a problem. Is Remington using crap primers in their Gun Club line of shells??? hmmmm?
     
  10. nords

    nords Member

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    A friend had a problem with his Kolar firing Nobel Sports. Called Kolar they had him checked firing pin, everything was suppost to ok. He shot factory shells until he had Kolar put a new firing pin in, no more problems!
     
  11. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Anyone ever had a problem with Federals, in any gun?
     
  12. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me like Kolar has the problem, if everyone is having problems with Kolar. May not be the primers at all. I shoot everything in my Ljutic, except Wolf. Whatever has been the cheapest for 30+ years of reloads. I can only recall one primer not going off, and that was a AA209. And it was struck hard, I just don't think there was anything in it to go bang.
     
  13. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

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    Ian, check your pm's. l.g.
     
  14. bobby ward

    bobby ward Member

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    Skeet-Man,

    Pay very close attention to the seating depth when you reload. I have a friend who loads on a 9000H and had numerous problems with primers not going off and light strike marks on those that did happen to go off.

    I shoot a Kolar trap gun and a Kolar Sporting Clays with NO problems whatsoever. I did however have problems with Noble Sport primers in my Beretta Extrema II and another shooter had problems with Wolf and Fiocchi in his Browning sporting clays.
     
  15. twoatlow8

    twoatlow8 Member

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    Is your problem with both barrels? I had problems with my Kolar when I first got it I bought it used. The top barrel would misfire about 5 out of 100. I have a carrier for the tubes and a separate barrel for the 12 same problem with both barrels new ammo or reloads. It took two trips back to Kolar to get it fixed ON MY DIME!!! They said both times that they changed the firing pins and springs and on the springs that are in it now you can see the have cut coils off them. I have shot 6K to 8K rounds since with no problems. They did try to tell me that it was the Winchester 209 primers which was BULL S--T.
    I Love my Kolar gun I did not mind having to pay service on the gun the first time back I did buy it used, The gun did not have 1K rounds through it.
    I still am mad about the charges for the second time back, Kolar should have covered that. I love the gun, and I will say their service is better than Browning's but you will never see me with a Kolar hat or shirt on.
     
  16. twoatlow8

    twoatlow8 Member

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    The other thing to check is the ejector trips, make sure that they are clean and that there is not too much oil on them. These can slow down the hammer and cause weak hits.
     
  17. spclays1

    spclays1 TS Member

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    I was having problems with Noble Sports primers in my Kolar. I put in a new firing pin in the bottom barrel and the problem cured. When the last of my Noble Sports are gone I will go back to Winchester 209's and never look back.
     
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