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Problem with Ponsness Warren primer knockout

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Jason Hassler, May 5, 2007.

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  1. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I am loading Rem STS hulls with Cheddite primers. Most of the shells go through the loader perfectly but when I am knocking out the spent primers on occasion some of them seem to stick in the brass and the brass ends up being bent outward before the spent primer finally knocks out. This only happens with a few, say 5 to 10 or so out of every 50-75 but it is enough to really slow down the loading operation. My uncle also has a Ponsness and he has loaded around 150,000 AA shells without any problems until he started loading the new style AA shells. He said he is having the same problem with some of them and they are once fired with the original Win 209s. They are also bulging the brass outward before knocking the primer out. Anyone have any ideas.
     
  2. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I have heard that Remington has the best and most reloadable hull on the market. I have never had any problem like this before. I really love this Ponsness loader but I think they need to improve how much support the bottom of the brass has at the depriming station to avoid this problem. I was assuming it was the cheddite primers being a little inconsistent. Jason
     
  3. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    I load the AA and Federal paper hulls and the only time I have that problem is when the old steel primer is rusty. The real bad ones are a little stiff coming out of the hull and the brass would become misshapen, as you described. They would still go in the gun fine and they always were flattened back out and loaded fine after the first firing. Bill Malcolm
     
  4. jappo

    jappo TS Member

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    The only time I've ever had any problem with either of my PW presses is when I tried to use Cheddite primers. I bought a sleeve of them, they started having issues from the very first one. I tried a few different things and nothing worked. I miked them and were different sizes than Remington or Win and I ended up giving them all away....I don't try Cheditte anymore. I am going to try Fiochi when I find some.
     
  5. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I was thinking that I may have to switch to a Rem or Win primer. Kind of gets under my skin though, as much money as these Ponsness presses cost I shouldn't have to go out and spend more money on more expensive components because there is not enough brass support provided by a high end loader. I really feel the Ponsness is a better engineered machine than the Mecs I've had but I never had this problem with them because they support the brass much better. I am going to call PW on monday to see if they have any suggestions. Jason
     
  6. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Have Whiz make you a new deprimer out of brass with a stainless steel pin. It works great no more magnetized primers.
     
  7. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Personally, I've had the same problem with once fired hulls only, all brands, never with Cheddite reloads. I've loaded over 200k of them. Are you putting a few once fired hulls in the mix?

    Duper, what kind of mic are you using? I've heard this size difference stuff before and it just ain't so.

    Buz

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  8. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    grunt, reread the problem. The primers are coming out, but the bottom of the brass is bulging. I've had the problem you're talking about, too and your solution is a good idea. I was too cheap and just de-magnetized the de-priming tool.

    Buz
     
  9. bojav

    bojav TS Member

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    The proublem is caused by dampness. The steel shell head and the steel primer rust togeather. I have had the same thing happen. BOB
     
  10. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I dont think the problem is dampness, none of my shells have been wet and the primers I knocked out that made the brass distort show no signs of rust or any kind of corrosion. I did notice though that the "problem primers" seem to have a mark just below the lip that looks like it went through a lot of friction. At first I thought that I had an alignment problem with the knockout punch but I dont think so now. I ran a whole bunch of once fired STS's through with the factory installed Rem primer and had absolutely no problem. When I run my reloaded shells through with the cheddites I seem to get at least one out of every 15-20 that will bend. I have loaded some of these shells several times but they all still look very good. I also had to add that these shells were loaded before this on a mec but I dont see how that applies. It seems that only a select few of these primers come out so hard that they warp the brass pretty badly. I could post a couple of pics of these shells and primers but I dont know how. Also, I was wondering what installing a demagnetized punchout will do?
     
  11. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Sounds like either the depriming punch is lose or the decapping pin is lose or bent. Check the centering of the depriming shaft in the die. It must be 100% centered.

    If the above is true, then the decapping pin will not be centered in the primer hole and may catch on the brass surrounding the primer in the pocket.

    About th eonly problem I experience on the P/W is with old, once-fire AA hulls. On occasion a ribbon of red plastic will adhere to the top of the spent primer and upon being knocked out of the hull, and instead of dropping, it will hang there and get mixed up with a new primer going it. Makes a helluva concave mess.

    Whiz
     
  12. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    Hey Whiz, thanks for your reply. My uncle and I have been pondering that problem as well and this is what has us both stumped. He has a 950 elite and mine is the 800plus. We both noticed that the knockout on both machines has a sharp corner on them, when I say that I mean not a tapering one commonly used on the older mec machines. The knockout on the 800 plus seems to be just small enough to make it through the primer hole on the shells with not room to spare and his is a little bit smaller. We took the knockout assembly out of his machine and put it in mine and ran some shells through. Most of them knocked out without any problem. One in say 20 would be bent as described about the same amount as my punch. We were thinking that perhaps on occasion the punch was not getting centered perfectly and catching a corner of the shell with the sharp edge of the punch and causing the damage. So we were thinking about having someone maching the punch down a little smaller in diameter and adding a slight taper to the end just in case this was happening. However, we also ran a whole bunch of once fired sts hulls through this machine with both knockout punches installed and we didn't have any problems. So it would seem the problem is not in centering as I would think that would also catch on the new once fired as well. We are stumped.
    Jason
     
  13. zanaidoo

    zanaidoo TS Member

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    Alfermann66

    Not to be disputing what you said about the difference in the outside diameter of different brands of Primers but you may want to start looking at the hash marks on the top of the barrel of your mike. From the pictures it appears that there are approximately .0002 - .0003 in size difference between the two shown with the Winchester being the smaller of the two.
     
  14. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    I contacted Ponsness today to see what info they had on this. I was told that it is a component issue and that I probably have a bad batch of shells or primers. I understand that this is probably not the fault of Ponsness but honestly, if I was loading on a Mec this would not be an issue. The Mecs have total support of the bottom of the brass when the primers are being knocked out and even pretty good support provided by the powder drop tube when the primer is being seated. The Ponsness has a gap under the brass during punchout that allows for the primer feed track to function and the only support for the brass on the primer insert is provided by the dies from the outside edge of the shell which will also allow the brass to cup inward when seating a new primer. Honestly I believe that this is a design flaw in the PW. I purchased the Ponsness because I wanted a very sturdy and rock solid machine that would produce a great shell every time. I feel that with the cost of this unit I shouldn't have to be worried about what kind of shell or primer I am using and it should work great regardless. Other than this above mentioned problem I think the PW is a great machine but I honestly have to say that I am a little disappointed. But the good news is that it is a sturdy and tough machine and with each pull of the handle you either make a new shell or destroy one.
    Jason
     
  15. Jason Hassler

    Jason Hassler Member

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    Wow Fred, you know honestly I have thought of that. I own an older Mec 600 and the thought did occur to me to knock out the primers with it before running them through the PW. But I am not retired and dont have that kind of time. That and with this high end loader I shouldn't have to really. Congrats on your retirement and thank you for your service to the Marines.
    Jason
     
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