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Problem with American Select?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by riflegunbuilder, Mar 31, 2008.

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  1. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    I just started useing American Select. I am trying to use Alliants load for 7/8oz that calls for 17.6 gr with the WW grey wad in an AA case. I am useing the Downrange pink 7/8oz wad. Downrange advises to use WW grey wad data.


    I shot yesterday and all loads were "poofy". Many were light enough that I wondered if the wad had cleared the barrel. Tempreture was 45-48 degrees. Alliant list a 1250 fps load @ 18.5 gr, and also a 18.0 gr load using 4100 Claybusterwad. I am looking for 1200 fps w/ 7/8 oz. After shooting I checked powder drop again, 10 throws showed lowest of 17.4 high of 17.8. Crimps are .57 to .65 deep. Do you think going to 18.0 will cure this, or go to 18.5?
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a wad problem. What primer are you using? HMB
     
  3. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    Useing a Downrange pink wad. Fiocchi primer. I was loading 15.7 gr of Nitro 100 withall else the same without any problems.
     
  4. Rich V.

    Rich V. Member

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    riflegunbuilder... check ou the link above to the Alliant site. The load that you are using is pretty light (refer to the psi rating). I believe that you could bump the powder (per the suggested amout in the chart) and still have a pretty nice load. I've used American Select for over 5 years and had no problems (1.125 loads to .875 loads and inbetween). The "poofy" loads as you put it might just be the function of the light load. Check the chart and give anothe a try.

    Rich V...
     
  5. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    I have had similar results using Fiocchi primers with light powder charges. With Wolf or Cheddites I get a solid ignition every time.
    AndyH
     
  6. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    I love American Select, but not for the load you are using. You'll have to go up to 19gr before you get enough pressure for a good burn in warm weather. To 20 gr for cold weather. Personally, I use e3 for 7/8oz loads. It is much better suited than Am Sel.

    BTW, part of the problem may be the wads. I've tried them and got uncharacteristically bad results. I have 1800 left, so I hope I stumble onto the right recipe for them.
     
  7. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Unless I've forgotten more than I've stored on the hard drive, the DR. pink wad is actually a replacement for the Fed. 12SO wad which would be designed for a straight wall hull. Your AAs are tapered hulls and, while the 12SO and DR pink may work well in STS or AA hulls, it may be a stretch to expect them to sit nice and tidy on the light powder charge. Add to that the fact you're seeking a rather sluggish velocity for 7/8 oz loads, and you could well be getting the poof loads. My "expert" research has suggested 7/8 oz loads need some velocity (pressure is actually what you're seeking) in order to get a good, consistent burn of powder to perform well. Three suggestions from me; try a recipe with Winchester or Cheddite primer, even Federal if you like, boost the powder drop as you suggest as a possibility, and go to the WW 12L gray wad or it's clone from CB. I'll wager your poofs will go bang at some point in those moves....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  8. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    According to Downrange, the wads I am useing are for AA/STS hulls DRXXL Pink. The DRL XXL Orange is for Federal hulls.
     
  9. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    You are using a 1oz wad. That is teh problem. The wad will work in some cases but not all. If youy had been using the Winchester Grey wad it would have worked like a dream. I will bet dollars to donuts that the shot cup is completly enclosing the shot. Sound familer? I have used the same load ( and with more powder) with the grey Winchester wad and it loads like a new shell. Just because DR shows it as a replacement doesn't mean it is going to work. Jeff
     
  10. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    As zzt suggested, that's the wrong powder for 7/8 oz. Switch to Red Dot. American Select for 1 1/8 oz.
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    riflegunbuilder, it's true that DR states the XXL pink wad is for AA/STS hulls but, unless I've gotten bad info from Down Range, it STILL is a shape or design in the base that came from the Fed. 12SO. With super small loadings of powder, it could happen that the wad is not seated on the powder firmly. I doubt that's your main problem but it's a potential. I happen to have cut my teeth on 7/8 oz loads in the last century using Fed. 12SO wads and 700X so I know they or similar wads can work but I prefer the WW12L or CB clone. I'd still consider trying the tapered wads along the way but boosting the pressure, and thus velocity, and using an alleged hotter primer could still be likely fixes. Of course, it should go without saying, the faster/hotter the powder the better with the weenie loads. Do let us know how you eventually find a fix....breaekemall....Bob Dodd
     
  12. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Bob, the pink XXL wads I have definitely have a smaller diameter at the bottom of the powder cup than 12S0s do.
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Okee Dokee, zzt, been wrong once already this year so this can't possibly count. Different powder and bring up the pressure still stands as the fix Sir rifle builder.....Bob Dodd
     
  14. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Select is a great Bunker load powder with the 24 gram shot load. Trying to get a soft load with a slow powder and little shot does not work.

    If you can, keep pressures around 9000 PSI. Things work well at that pressure.

    I have noticed Downrange wads do not seal as well as other brands, especially when loaded to low pressure.
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Too light a load for the powder AND the Fiocchi primers aren't helping any either. Use a more appropriate powder at proper pressures and get rid of the Fiocchis for the lighter loads, especially in colder weather.
     
  16. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    Talked to DR and Alliant. Going to try 18.5- 19.0 with the Fiocchis and see what I get and go from there. Does any one know if NobleSport primers are any hotter than Fiocchi?
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Big Bore

    I have had some overbored guns myself. You and I know they like shot and powder. Keeping pressures to at least 9000 psi will solve a lot of problems.

    I had real issues with the 12S3 clones DR sent out as a sample. Changing nothing but the wad in a standard load I have long used, I got very soft sounding loads at the best, and bloopers at the worst. When going back to the Claybusters I have used for many years, the bark and recoil came back.
     
  18. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Big Bore

    I had a Krieghoff big bore O/U that gave unbelievable breaks with Bunker loads, but Les Greevy talked me out of it for one of his young phenoms.

    I am pretty partial to the 12SO wad myself. It seems it will do more than its share in a target smoking Bunker load.

    All the complaints I have heard about it, such as its weight and increases in chamber pressure with a given load, are good things.

    As you said, loading to black powder pressures do not make it. Smokeless is simply not designed that way. 9000 is the magic number. Going a little higher will not hurt anything, but going much lower can give problems, especially with light shot loads and low temps.
     
  19. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    The 12S0 is the very best wad for 7/8oz or 24g loads in STS hulls. It is simply astonishing how well it performs.

    BTW, it's PDG in a Gold Medal hull for 1oz loads.
     
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