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Problem Gunsmiths / Vendors / Stock work on site ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Old Texas Marine, Aug 5, 2009.

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  1. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    I see the age of the busy body is still strong. It is not the ATA or the shoot managers' responsibility to be anybody's nanny.

    Buyer Beware is still a good motto. Take responsibility for your self and your actions. Don't depend on some organization to "protect" you. Do some research and be prudent in your buying decisions and the market will take care of the less than desirable vendors.

    Sheesh!

    HBT
     
  2. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    Maybe supply information on all good results and omit the bad ones.
     
  3. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    The gunsmiths are required to have an FFL. If they don't then the feds will be glad to hear about it. Stockwork and such where the main component of the firearm (serial numbered components) are not regulated. After a few complaints the BATFE may be interested in what is happening.
     
  4. berettagold53954

    berettagold53954 TS Member

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    people are too scared now days if i got bad service and they wouldnt fix the problem id tell my fellow shooters who i wouldnt want anyone else ripped off no different than leaving feedback on ebay
     
  5. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

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    I am a gunsmith and have tried to get insurance, but it is so outrageous that I would have to triple my rates just to break even. But I do guarantee all of my work.
    Don
     
  6. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    To Rennerize, what would you do if you damaged an extremly high end gun. Lets say the damage was in excess of $7,000.00 Do you have the financial ability to make the customer whole. I took my Infinity to have sme work done by one of these traveling gunsmiths. I was lucky. Nothing bad happened.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  7. dzeh

    dzeh Member

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    I don't see why everyone should be so against the idea. I don't know how many websites I've been to where vendors were rated. How many of us have purchased electronics online where there was a website that had "star" ratings for various sellers? Doesn't just about every travel website have a star rating for various hotels? I've gone to tirerack.com and looked at reviews before I bought a set of tires. And believe me I got alot more out of reviews made by people who actually purchased and used those tires than what some salesman ever told me. Even Amazon.com has ratings based on consumer reviews. If done properly a vendor rating system for shooters could be beneficial.
     
  8. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Looks like no here has ever heard of or seen the Angie's list commercial. To everyone who has ever been a contractor, would you hire a sub without insurance? I think this is what this post is all about.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  9. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I think it is a good perspective, contractors cannot pay or buy their way onto Angie's List.

    What would we call a trapshooting list?

    The factories like Perazzi, Kreighoff, Kolar, Caesar Guerini, Infinity, would police who they give authorized service to, or they better for their names sake.

    But gunsmiths in general, not putting this in a bad way. Ole Joe Buys an enclosed trailer, puts a drill press in, a small lathe, Chop saw, belt sander and says I am a gunsmith, is he? What smithing school has he attended? Was it mail order? That Certificate did he buy it?

    Customer base will tell the story, shooters tell who has done a good job or a bad job. No customers no money. The unknowing new shooter gets taken to the cleaners.

    I personally know of a Relese trigger man Kemmerly from Louisana that ruined a trigger of mine and the factory was good enough to fix it for me free of charge when I told them who done it, and I paid for the release up front and never got a dime back, That was 30+ years ago, and I know several friends with same expierence. There was a posting about him some months ago.

    I will nevr, never, have him do any work or reccomend him.

    He and his gun may be in the Hall of Fame but he is in my Hall of FLAMES.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  10. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    Is Mr Kaufman a lawyer? Is he looking for business? Is his email address revealing? D Winter
     
  11. samiam03

    samiam03 Member

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    Over in the MINI Cooper forum we had a rule that any member could call out any vendor but they could only air their grievances one time. If they posted their displeasure more than once or in multiple threads over multiple dates we considered that undue harassment and a warning was issued to the poster. If it escalated we would either ban the individual or put them in "Coventry" (they could continue to post but their post were only visible to themselves). If there was a consistent pattern of multiple complaints about a vendor and they were extremely slow in rectifying the complaints - we would boot them from the site at the request of the membership. And not to make it a big mystery we would post a message to the membership concerning our actions and listing links to all the complaints posted by the membership.

    The vendor is more than welcome to post to the same thread in reply and they often did. Amazingly any vendor problems were resolved in a very timely manner.

    The vendors at any venue are normally chosen by the sponsoring club. Clubs look for feedback after their event - if there is a disreputable vendor - they need to know so that the vendor can be eliminated from their next event.

    Expecting ATA to step into the fray is naive. Trapshooters.com is the place for this information to be shared with the community.

    D.J. Kaufman - your desire is laudable but you seem a little lost in the direction you want to take your list.

    JUST MY OPINION

    Sam
     
  12. OldPshtr

    OldPshtr Member

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    Looks like we should appoint a Gunsmith Czar to take charge of all our
    gun related problems - right after solve Health Care.

    Doyal
     
  13. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Insurance should not be an issue to a person who can reliably repair a firearm in a timely manner, if they have minimal people skills.

    Our company's Type 7 FFL (firearms and ammo manufacturing) insurance is $2200 annually, with a $2 mil policy. The BATFE considers much repair to be "manufacturing", subject to the 11% FET. The Feds want their money, and I am darned sure going to obey the Law of the Land. Under certain conditions, fitting a barrel (!!!), rebluing, or sticking an upper and lower of an AR-15 together is considered manufacturing.(HOLY $H!T emoticon needed)

    Our firearms training insurance, with the same $2 mil coverage, is under $400 per year. I work with a VERY savvy fellow who is teaching me frugality to a whole new level. Low over head means lower prices to our customers, and less stress for us.

    If a business does not have a the needed licenses, insurance, and a fixed base, they are NOT a business. They are Gypsies.

    Any club or organization that does not require a business license, proof of insurance, and a fixed base to allow a vendor or trainer on their premises is "cruising for a bruising".
     
  14. butcher

    butcher Member

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    I think the good out weighs the bad. Leave well enough alone. Besides most people down there can steer you to the good and away from a couple bad ones if there are any. Accidents do happen you know and none of are exempt from them.
     
  15. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Shooting Coach-the term Gypsies is correct. Every spring a group of itinerant flim flam artists nick-named the Travelers" descend on various regions of the U.S. offering discount home repairs. The only thing they usually damage is the clients bank account. However, I was lucky-the gypsy who replaced a butt pad on my gun did No damage. When I was in businesss I hated to having to compete with moonlighting handimen who called themselves electrical contractors. They had no license & asked the homeowner to take out the permit. If something goes wrong who do you blame. These itinerant gunsmiths & stockfitters, unless proven to be reputable business should be avoided. After the shoot, they're gone with the wind.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    But a business license and insurance does not make a person skilled. It simply means that they have paid the license/insurance fees to someone.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Dave P

    Dave P TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Gary, Dr. LS: You say manufacturers could monitor this list. I would think that they would listen to any customer complaints as a regular course of business now. Don't you?
     
  18. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Pat

    You are absolutely right, but if they have their affairs in order, they can be found and sued, if needed, to make a botched repair or damage to an expensive firearm right.

    These days, there are too many folks who believe in covering for the bad guy. Let everyone know who he is so he can be avoided, and hopefully, banned from vendoring at some of the big shoots.
     
  19. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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    I certainly can't speak for anyone but myself in this matter. Every vendor who attends a shoot at Sparta or San Antonio is req'd to have a minimum $1000,000 liability policy to cover injury, etc. This DOES NOT cover loss or damage to customers' property. In addition to my liability policy mentioned above, I also carry a $150,000 BAILEE policy that expressly covers any customer property left in my care ( that includes both my stationary shops and my trailer) against loss by any means......fire, theft, damage, etc. I don't know if anyone else who does what I do carries this type of insurance, but I do. The premium is only $100 a month and very well worth it , IMO.

    Ken Rucker...Speedbump Stockworks
     
  20. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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