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Prize Insurance for ATA events

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by xcollector, Aug 26, 2008.

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  1. xcollector

    xcollector TS Member

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    I was wondering if it anyone has secured prize insurance for a large payout for an ATA event similar to Hole in One insurance for golf tournaments. I saw that the Hole in One insurance is rather reasonable, and the payouts can be quite substantial. Does anyone offer these for Trap events, and if so what type of rates/payouts are available?

    As an example I'd like to be able to offer a large payout for 100 straight in handicap.

    Thanks,

    Doug
     
  2. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    When I've underwritten a "hole-in-one" event policy, the number participants, the length of the hole, slope of the course/difficulty and a breakdown of the participants classification (amateurs v. pro) have been requested.

    Those are known parameters in advance of the event. Shooter averages and handicaps wouldn't typically be known in advance, unless you could finalized a guest list and request them early enough to be tabulated.

    I did make an inquiry to assess whether anything presently exists or could be developed for shooting sports.

    I'll follow back if I hear anything...

    Jay
     
  3. xcollector

    xcollector TS Member

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    Thanks Jay
     
  4. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Doug,

    Yes it can be done. The Texas Association offered a 100 straight prize at one of their zones and the state shoot. Jimmy Borum had something to do with putting it together.

    This should be very easy to obtain. We have a program through a London outlet that we can do this with in several midwestern states.

    You're probably going to see a premium of 5 - 10% of the award. I might go even a little higher depending on the size of the award. Reason being, the bigger the award, I would expect a greater number of "big dogs" to attend.

    tom
     
  5. hairy

    hairy TS Member

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    If you were the underwriter, and a club wanted to insure a prize of say a new pickup...value $30,000 for a 100 straight handicap score, what would you want for a premium?

    The shoot would be at Spanish Fork gun club.
     
  6. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Hairy,

    assuming your post is aimed at me...

    If I were licensed to do business in Utah (I'm not) I would lean toward the high end of the range, possibly even higher than 10% given number of good scores reportedly shot at Spanish Fork. I'd probably request a list of results from the past couple year's ATA and PITA shoots. If too many 100's winning, I'd decline the opportunity. I would also attach some warranties to the policy regarding target setting and prior target requirements/penalty ydg.

    Tom
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    The Autumn Grand at the Tucson T&S club has such a policy on the main handicap on Sunday. I think it's $10,000 for a 100 straight,, IF,, you shoot all the handicap events leading up to the championship handicap event. One of our club officers put this together, I think through LLoyd's of London? Hap
     
  8. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I just got some news...

    Based on some sketchy info I provided to one of my outlets, for a $10K prize, with 200 shooters would run $1150. Additional shooters would increase the premium by an additional $5 ea. after the 1st 200.

    My vendor said he would provide more details from his market with a firm quotation. After receipt I'll provide more info.

    regards to all,

    Jay Spitz
     
  9. xcollector

    xcollector TS Member

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    Thanks again Jay. Have you ever run an event like this? I am looking into this as a fundraiser for my club. I would like to think it would be doubly beneficial as more shooters will practice handicap, and we can get a large draw for the event. Am I on the right track?
     
  10. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    There have been two events here in Texas this year that offered $10,000 for a hundred straight in handicap. A shoot in Amarillo and the State Shoot. There is still one to go in October at the Fort Worth club. The cost was $800. Those are the ones I know of. John Hoffland made the original contact to secure the policies. We had to do a little negotiation on the wording but it came out well and, so far, no winner. Jimmy Borum
     
  11. motrap

    motrap Member

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    The fly in the ointment for our club was a disclaimer by the policy writer along the lines of ..........

    " ......... any shooter that had previously won any monies derived from shooting would be defined as a professional, and therefore inelligible ........."

    this was accorded to the standard wording from golf tournament hole-in-one policies that our underwriter was unwilling to modify to better align itself with the sport and definitions of trapshooting

    our BOD was unwilling to expose itself to the possibility of a shooter winning the GMC pickup, and then the insurance refusing the claim, and we being liable ......
     
  12. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I have not sold any prize-type insurance for shooting, which I why I had to inquire, but once I get some better info, I'd be glad to provide it for everyone's review.

    For a trapshooter, I broker a heckuva lot of insurance... lol

    Jay
     
  13. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    OK... back with some additional information.

    According to my vendor, there is a minimum premium which basically makes $10000 the smallest prize and a census up to 200 shooters; before any increase in cost.

    Originally developed for Sporting Clays, trap handicap and skeet programs are all adaptable as well as non-sanctioned shooting events, but in a trap handicap event, everyone must be correctly classified with NEW shooters handicapped at 27 yards. In non-sanctioned events, ALL shooters shoot from 27 yards or the farthest yardage available.

    The only caveat is pre-event practice. The policies state (originally done for sporting) no practice from the same stations prior to the event. I received written confirmation that in "trap", a shooter's practice must end at least one hour before the start of their handicap event.

    While the policies state no "mulligans, do-overs, etc..." again I confirmed, all ATA, NSSA and NSCA rules for replacement targets - broken birds, illegal targets, misfires, etc... are applicable and allowed.

    Entrants are underwritten to be "amateurs". In questionning the underwriter about what defines a "Pro" - Part-time shooting instructors, law enforcement and military personnel are not excluded from participation. I requested a bit more detail about those who offer services to the industry, to avoid any questions or issues...

    If you have additional question(s) that I have not covered, please ask...

    regards to all,

    Jay Spitz, CLU CHFC
     
  14. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    During a long past Ohio State Shoot, there were insurance company underwritten, prizes for 100 straights in the handicaps. I believe there were some straights accomplished, maybe Louie Morgan was one of them???? I remember every starting bank had refs on duty and if someone ran a trap they were followed to the point of missing, just to prevent target calling or anyother form of cheating.
     
  15. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    One complication that would likely increase your premium - if the weather is decent, it's not uncommon for 100 straight to be broken from 27 yards at Spanish Fork. The last event I attended there, this year's Handicap Championship at the Utah State Shoot, had two. I've been there when as many as four or five have occured in one handicap. If the prize is big enough, you will attract many of the top shooters, and at least one 100 straight will be a near certainty.
     
  16. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    One point, I forgot to mention... its one prize per program. With multiple straights (regardless of yardage), ties split the purse... 2 winners - $5K each, 3 winners $3333.33 each, etc...

    Jay
     
  17. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

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    You are correct. It was the 100th Ohio State Shoot. I was told it was LLoyds of London that provided the insurance. OSTA provided LLoyds with previous records of all 100 straights in ATA handicap, shoot size, etc.

    Ohio had four handicaps. For each 100 straight Ohio wanted to give $10,000 for 1st handicap, $15,000 for 2nd handicap, $20,000 for 3rd handicap, and $25,000 for the 4th handicap. LLoyds insurance premimum for all four handicaps, I was told, was $8,700.

    During the shoot all four handicaps had 100 straights broken. Louie Morgan won the fourth handicap and received the $25,000. Louie also won the green Monarch gun safe that was given away. (Monarch was later bought out by Fort Knox).

    Michael Stephenson
     
  18. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    Since the insurance company is in this for a profit the ATA should sponsor the event, collect the premiums and make the payouts. It could work somewhat like the Magnum Purses that circulate from shoot to shoot in Washington State.

    Someone who understands the operation of this event better than I can fill in the details.
     
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