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Primers - Fiocchi 616 vs. Win 209?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Jon Reitz, May 28, 2008.

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  1. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, are Fiocchi 616 primers considered to be just a bit hotter than Winchester 209's? Hence, would they increase velocity slightly as compared to a load with Winchesters in them, with every thing else being the same.

    Thanks..
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    They are generally considered to be "about" equivalent; hotter in some loads and weaker in others. Why not check the data pages on your powder manufacturer's web site?
     
  3. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Other opinions please..
     
  4. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    In my applications, I find they are about 20 fps slower that the Winchester 209 (summer) and 35fps slower (winter) BRGII
     
  5. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    I had a friend cronograph a couple of loads comparing primers and found only about 20fps difference (slower) using Fiocchi as compared to Winchester. The Federal 209A's ended up just about equal to the Winchesters.

    They all shoot the same for me

    Big Jack
     
  6. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I would have guessed the Win 209's would be slightly faster. Any other input out there?
     
  7. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    When I used the Fiocchi's instead of Win 209's I had several "soft" disharges per 100. This was using STS hulls, 17.2gr Clays, Green Dusters, 1 oz lead. Went back to Win 209's and had no softies again.
     
  8. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I've shot Fiocchi 616 for about three years now, just got into my last sleeve this morning. I've used about 20K so far and have never had one misfire or blooper.
    I use them for my 1oz. load with 17.5 Clay/Claydot and my 1 1/8oz load with 18.2 of the same powders. I have shot these loads in 10 degree weather and 110 degree (Sparta last year)and can't seem to see much difference. (The weather may be cold/hot but the shells were always kept around room temps ), I'm having a hard time finding them now, I though they'd have them at the Great Lakes Grand but no one had any. Anybody have a source in Northern Michigan?
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I've shot about 3,000 so far. Can't tell any difference, except they don't fit the once fired STS hulls as well as a Win 209. They get hungup on my priming station cause they don't seat all the way. MEC 9000 H loader. Could be my loader set up, but have not had problems with Win 209's.
     
  10. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I just bought 5K of Fiocchi for $98 compared to the high price of Win 209's but I won't get to use them until my Win 209's are gone. I hope they work out OK.
     
  11. riflegunbuilder

    riflegunbuilder Member

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    I have loaded around 20,000 of them. I just bought 5000 NobleSports. When the NobleSports are gone I plan to go back to the Fiocchis. I did find, at least for me that when loading lower pressure loads I had to add .5 grains of powder in cold weather.
     
  12. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Considering the price of WW 209's, I went to Cheddites.
     
  13. Bridger

    Bridger Member

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    The tech at Hodgdon told me the Fiocchi primer was not as hot as the Winchester
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The Fiocchi and Winchester primers are not the same. They will most likely give different pressures and velocities might vary as well, Velocity and pressure do not have to correspond, especially if different components are used. Get reliable data for the EXACT components you are using, even IF you have to send out some loads for pressure testing. There is really no such thing as "hotter" or "milder" when it comes to primers. They are "different". They can perform quite differently in different combinations and varying conditions. The Fiocchi 616s are terrible in cold weather with some powders. I'll spend the extra $0.25 cents per box to get reliable ignition and reliable data. When you play with things that go bang, a little caution might be a good thing. Don't swap components without data to support it.
     
  15. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Quack Shot & PerazziBigBore make some good points. Fiocchi's do not perform well consistently in cold weather. I also noticed in reading some data from Alliant that velocity & pressure do not correspond when different combinations of components are used.

    Having said that, from your experiences, can anyone here "rank" the primers below from hottest to mildest if everything else in the recipe is equal?

    Winchester
    Fiocchi
    CCI
    Remington
     
  16. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    If anyone was silly enough to attempt that, and miraculously got it right, it would change with the next lot of powder of the same type, etc. Geez! Even the powder manufacturers don't agree on burning rates of other manufacturer's powders.

    On top of that, it is a silly question. You just said you READ the Alliant data an NOTICED..."velocity & pressure do not correspond when different combinations of components are used." So exactly how is it you cannot answer your own question for any listed combination of components by simply REREADING a powder manufacturer's loading data? Or is it you believe one of our guesses is going to be more accurate than powder manufacturers testing?
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Velocity and pressure are not necessarily synonymous. You're not able to feel pressure. You will see it's results when your firearm comes apart in your hands!!
     
  18. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Have been using Fiocchi 616. First 5000 no problems; second 5000, 2 duds so far as I go into the second thousand.
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    If you think the Fiocchi primer requires more powder, check the data from Hodgdon, for Clays with STS and Winchester hulls. Some of the Fiocchi top loads are clearly almost two grains less than the max with the Winchester primers. It's a crap shoot when making substitutions. Primers will react differently when used in different loads with different powders. There are also variations from lot to lot. Like Mike said, keep the pressures low and you have a little room for error. When in doubt, use reliable data for the EXACT components you are loading. If that means sending some out for testing, it's not that expensive and could save a lot of trouble in the long run. I don't usually trust the data given to me by so and so from Brand X powder company when I ask them about a particular combination. Unless they have tested the load, it's just an educated guess. It can be WAY off the mark. Even if the load was tested, there are enough variables to deal with. Small changes can make large variations in pressure. It's not worth risking damage to my firearms or personal injury to save a penny or two per round.
     
  20. tburrey

    tburrey Member

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    I've shot Fiocchi primers from 95 degrees here in Florida to 5 below zero in Ohio and never had any problem with them period. STS hulls and green dot powder in a one ounce load. Work great and great price too. Tom
     
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