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Primer went off in my press-TWICE

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by doniphandad, May 26, 2007.

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  1. doniphandad

    doniphandad TS Member

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    I just had my 2nd primer go off in my press, the first one I just thought that for some reason I got something in the seating die, I took it apart and didn't find anything but you never know. The 2nd one that just happened I carefully took the die out and there was nothing there. In both cases there was no dimple on the primer. The die was smooth so that isn't the problem. So I assume now that it is the primers. I know there will be some questions so I will give what little I know. Winchester Primers Lot No. XHL771. Bought locally just before christmas last year and kept in my heated basement. My reloader is a MEC 76 Progressive which is fairly old but in great shape. The 1st time was about 6 boxes into the reloading session, the 2nd one was 4 and a half boxes. In both cases the primer went off on the down stroke and didn't set off the powder which dumps on the up stroke. Thankfully! Ears are ringing. On the plus side they have all worked when I pull the trigger. Now what do I do-besides wear ear plugs?

    Bob
     
  2. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Very interesting, Bob. I don't have an answer for you, But I would like to see your setup. I've used MEC loaders since 1976, Never had a primer detonate in the press or any press for that matter.

    I would be interested in the fix for the problem.



    Jim
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I had one. The cause was a bb on the primer seating sjpindle. There is no other way this can happen, as far as I can see.

    It's possible you lost the BB when you pulled the shell to examine.

    I also had brown shorts when this happened.

    HM
     
  4. alpine

    alpine TS Member

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    Static electricty? Is your press grounded? Do you have carpet on the floor around the press?
     
  5. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    A piece of shot on the primer seat will set the primer off. Being softer than the primer and seater it will flatten and usually fall somewhere. The primer bottom appears to stay flat, but I theorize that it does indent to fire but the pressure of detonation flattens it and the piece of shot against the primer anvil.
     
  6. birdtracker

    birdtracker Active Member

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    Bob: I had this happen also. My loader is a Mec Grabber. The cause was hard to find. A thin sliver of metal got down in the primer pocket. Then when the handle was pulled it pushed up against the primer. I had to take a pick tool and scrape it out. It was thin almost like a primer skin. Check out the pocket. Hopefully this helps. Don
     
  7. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Bob, I had that happen in my 800B after 30 years of loading on it. On this particular seating stroke either the primer hole was tight or the empty hull on the previous die was hard to seat and the table popped down setting off the primer. I also found a piece of hull brass setting on the primer seating pin. Gets your attention doesn't it? Wear safety glasses guys!

    Buz
     
  8. willing

    willing Member

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    I just had the same thing with a Noble primer on a 9000GN. Imediately looked inthe primer seating and could find nothing. No dimple
    of any sort on the primer face.

    Bill
     
  9. GordonWood421

    GordonWood421 TS Member

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    Big Dave is correct about the internal pressures re-flattening the primer cup .

    Charlie
     
  10. doniphandad

    doniphandad TS Member

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    Thanks for all the responses. I didn't see anything in the die the 1st time, but like alot of people I have talked to, I figured I missed it. When the 2nd one went off I was very, very careful to check for any debris in the die and I can tell you that there was NOT anything in the die. I have shown these primers to everyone I know and they look like a new primer, maybe just a very, very little bit flatter right in the middle.

    Big Dave- Are you saying that a primer has enough force to flatten a 7 1\2 shot completely flat without leaving a dimple in the primer?

    What I have done is to take the die out and filed the seat flat ( it had a very slight convex shape ) and I also reduced the seating pressure. Hopefully this helps. I had a thought about the die though, why can't a person machine the center out of the die. Surely the outside edge is enough to push the primer in. Plus all the other stations have a opening for this same reason.

    Thanks for listening to my whining,

    Bob
     
  11. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    have had 2 fire when i was loading federal shells the very thin steel heads seem to deform sometimes after the second one i trashed the fed hulls
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I became very curious about this thread yesterday. I have read, and because something is published does not make it accurate, that primers must have a rather sharp blow to drive the anvil of the primer into the priming compound for ignition to occur.

    Yesterday I did take one Winchester primer and put it in my heavy vice. I was able to crush the primer to about 2/3 its original length and the primer did not go off. Most of the compression of the primer was at the flash hole end of the primer. My next thought is to glue a shot over the primer cup and then crush the primer in the vice. Perhaps I will get to that after the registered shoot today.

    Perhaps some others would like to repeat my experiment. Simply put a primer in a vice, toss a towel over the vice and start turning. We could at least determine if a primer will fire by crushing rather than by a sharp blow.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Pat, I too am going to a shoot today. I have NO intention of joining you on your experiment and will accept any result that you come up with. I have long ago stopped trying to salvage components, namely primers on "goof-ups". The risk is not worth the return. Shoot well and have fun to all, Bob
     
  14. ksshooter

    ksshooter TS Member

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    I have loaded just under 500,000 shells since 1971...yeah, I kept count ...anally oriented you know.
    Anyway, I've had 2 primers fire in a press, one an old Texan loader, the other an old PW. The Texan had a piece of shot in the primer holder but could not find anything in the PW.
    The one thing I do remember is the first one was a lot louder. Maybe it deafened me.

    charley
     
  15. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    On a Mec the primer is within the id opening of the powder drop tube which is sealed at the bottom by its being pressed into the base wad of the hull and at the top by the powder/shot drop bar. The pressure of the press coming down and the primer's detonation will most definitely flatten a piece of magnum shot, I've done it twice and had to change my shorts both times. :)
     
  16. doniphandad

    doniphandad TS Member

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    Thanks again for all the responses, I can see that I'm not the only one this has happened to. I don't know if that is good or bad!

    Pat, I never thought of testing a primer that way but if I can get my nerve up I'll try that with these primers and some from a different lot.

    Any way I guess the point I come back to is can this lot of primers be bad?? I have heard of primers not going off - be they factory loads or reloads. I do know that primers do have a lot of energy and they have to be very touchy about the manufacture of them. Meaning - not enough spark or too hard of face or temperature extremes, shell won't go off - shooter complains. Or the other way - too much spark or too soft of the face or extreme temperature sets the shell off - shooter complains!

    Bob
    P.S. On the good side, when I went shooting yesterday, all of my shells worked. Except some didn't go off at the right time! HAHA!!
     
  17. dennis (nj)

    dennis (nj) Guest

    None ever went of in my press in 25 years but I did have malfunctions where I tried to press a primered hull onto another primer and indented the top one but never did any go off . Must have been a pellet in the primer cup .
     
  18. richrob

    richrob TS Member

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    This has just happened to me, twice. I have reloaded about 4200 rounds then had two fire, again in a mec grabber, within 100 reloads. After the first time i cleaned everything very throughly, but it still happened. Anything I could be missing? Thanks, Rich
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Yes, me twice. A poopin god time for sure.

    HM
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have flattened a few primers when reloading. If the primer punch on station one is misaligned and does not punch out the primer, I know that you can not put a new primer in a hole that already has a primer in it. My hydraulic press will also flatten primers that get sideways in my press.

    Guess I am lucky. Looking at the total number of targets I have shot and estimating practice, I feel sure I have loaded well over 500,000 shells. Never had a primer go off in my press. I do know of an unfortunate accident on a Star pistol press when a person dropped/tapped the rod on a column of primers in the primer tube. The good news is that the person still has nine fingers.

    Pat Ireland
     
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