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Primer question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jlesley, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. jlesley

    jlesley TS Member

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    Right now I use Promo powder, Rem. 209 primer, 1 oz. load., 18 grains in a Remington hull. It seems much dirtier than the Red Dot I was using. I had someone tell me that I could use a "hotter" primer and it would alleviate some of that problem. Is that true? I also am thinking about trying a lighter load. I am struggling and still am not convinced that my gun is "too much gun" for me. So, before I make any rash decisions, I thought I would try a lighter load and see if recoil could be the issue. As you can see, I may be grabbing at straws here.....First thing is I'm going to drop the grains of powder. Then I may try 7/8 oz. when the weather breaks. I shot a box of 7/8oz. 16.5 grains on Sat. and it was amazing how good it felt. Anyway, the Alliant book I have only gives me a 209 primer option for the Promo/7/8oz. recipe.... can I substitute without getting myself into trouble? Thanks for any help! Jill
     
  2. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    Jill my "standard" load is 1oz, DRRT12, Rem hull, 17gr of PROMO and CCI 209 primer. I have not noticed it being very dirty and it is a pleasure to shoot in my 8.5 pound CG. Velocity should be around 1150 fps and it functions every autoloader that it has been shot in as well.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  3. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Promo varies by batch. Most Promo I used was about like old Red Dot. My last bottle of Promo was very clean. I just opened a new bottle and haven't noted what it is like.
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Jill, what wads are you using? With 18 grains of promo and a Claybuster wad your only getting a little more than 8000psi. A Winchester WAA12L and your at 9600psi. If the powder is not completely burning, up your pressure. Try some different wads, or some Win 209 primers. Cutting back on the powder charge would make things worse. I try to stay above 9000psi. with 1 ounce loads. Wayne
     
  5. threedeuces

    threedeuces TS Member

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    Feb 10, 2008
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    I noticed when the load pressures or on the lower end there is some un burnt powder residue left in the barrel. I upped the load to 17.2 g and it burns much cleaner.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Promo has been especially dirty for me and particularily when I tried making lite 7/8 Oz shells. CLAYS on the other hand works very well in those applications. It is important that you are comfortable shooting what ever ammo you make and if it costs a bit more to get there so be it.
     
  7. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Jill,
    If you are shooting a break open gun don't worry about "dirt". It does nothing except indicate your burn is not complete. So what?

    My girlfriend is recoil sensitive and I used to load 1oz in the Downrange XL-1 or Green Duster wad with 17.0 gr of Promo and Win 209's. We got her a PFS and she is shooting "hotter" loads now.

    When you look at the Alliant site use Red Dot recipes as Red Dot and Promo use the same charge weights/components.

    If clean burning is important to you look at low velocity loads with AALite. Here are a couple:

    1 oz. Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 WAALite 13.9gr 8,200 PSI 1070 fps


    1 oz. Rem. 209P Rem. TGT 12 WAALite 14.8gr 9,500 PSI 1125 fps


    Good luck

    Don
     
  8. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Jill

    Changing primers can have a dramatic effect on the dynamics of the load. It might "clean up" the load a little, but you really don't know what effect it will have on pressures, unless you have data to support it. Sometimes a primer substitution can increase pressures over the established limits. That can be a very dangerous situation. I look to keep pressures below 10,000 and over 8,000 psi. My target is about 9,000 to 9,500 PSI. That gives me a little headroom for variables and error.

    I shoot an 1100 and have not had an issue with Promo being dirtier than other powders. I did a very informal "test" a few years ago and found that one of the "Clean" powders had a tendency to have experienced gun malfunctions sooner than Promo, Red Dot, or Green Dot. I would have bet the farm on a different result, but it worked out the other way. I also find that the residue from Promo or Red Dot is pretty easy to clean up. I would not worry about the powder residue, since regular cleanings will keep that from becoming an issue. Wad/plastic residue would worry me a bit more. I've only had that become an issue with one type of "economy" wad made by a couple of manufacturers.

    If recoil is an issue, a lighter payload (shot charge) with a lower velocity will do more for you. Also adding weight to the gun can help, but if I understand your post, the gun is already on the borderline of being too heavy. Don Verna is right about the light loads using Winchester AALite powder. They have a factory load using 26 grams of shot at lower subsonic velocities. Hodgdon lists the data for the "factory duplication" for that load. They also list 7/8 and 1 oz loads that are super light. Since your gun is not an auto, function of the gas system is not an issue, so you can go as light as you need to. You could purchase a few boxes of the extremely light Factory Winchester loads to see if such a light load would work for you. You could then duplicate that load using available components if you would prefer.

    Unless you are experiencing "off sounding" loads or wide variations in velocity, there would be little reason to change your load unless you wish to reduce recoil. I have used a load that was very similar to what you listed above.

    Not knowing the details of the rest of your load, wad, etc., I would hesitate to make much more of a recommendation. I use a very similar load, but with the Winchester W209 primer. That selection had a lot to do with some cold weather testing that I have done. The Winchester Primer was more consistent in velocity than a few other primers that had been tried. I had used reliable data for all of the load selections for the testing. A few other primers would have bumped the pressures above my self-imposed pressure limits, but they were listed within established maximums.
     
  9. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
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    I now shoot AA Lite and 7/8 & 1 oz loads out of Hodgdons data with AA wads and Winchester primers in a STS hull. I loaded them for my wife to try. I tried them myself to see how badly she was handicapping herself (if I can ever get her to the club in the cold) and shot a 49 for my first two rounds.
    After I tried them, I bought 8Lb of powder, load for 1100 fps and have not looked back at 1 1/8 @ 1150 again.

    They burn dirty until I load about 14 grains with 1 Oz, but you know what, the next round cleans out that unburned powder and puts its own residue right back in it's place.

    I have not had a blooper with AA powder either. Winchester has been a good primer for me. STS, well not so much.
     
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