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Primer Question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Mr MardiGras, Mar 6, 2008.

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  1. Mr MardiGras

    Mr MardiGras Member

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    I recently purchased 2000 Fiocchi 209 primers ( I always used Fed. 209 and this NEVER happen ) to try and cut back on reload prices. I have loaded and shot 900. I have had about 5-8 misfires per 100 due to lite hits on the primer. I had my gun checked out and everything was fine and have since fired 700 rounds of store bought shells with no problems. I reload using a Mec Grabber 76 model and was wondering if there is a adjustment for the primer seating. Can it be setting the primer to deep??I just received my shippment on 5000 Fed 209 and hope they solve the problem. Thank you, Jim C.
     
  2. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    Jim: My guess is your primers are set too deep. 5% to 8% misfires is not realistic. I have loaded well over 12000 Fiocchi primers without a misfire. Adjust your primer seating and you should be fine. Ed
     
  3. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    I like the Fiocchi primers. I get them the cheapest. I don't think I have ever had a misfire. They do seem to fit a little tighter in my hulls. I like that too.
     
  4. claycruncher

    claycruncher TS Member

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    I have had similar problems with Fiocchi and also Cheddite primers. I shoot a K80 and have read other posts here where other K80 owners have had similar experience. I also have had my gun checked by Krieghoff and everything was to factory spec. My primers weren't set too deep either.

    I can only attribute it to the primer material. I believe there are variations in the the thickness of the material that won't let the primer ignite with the first strike. In every case the primer fired on the second strike. I had this failure sometimes as many as 5 times out of 25 (lost targets when shooting competition) and then may fire 5 or 6 boxes of shells without a failure. I switched to shooting the more expensive primers, Winchester and Remington, without having one failure. I would be happy to use a less expensive alternative but I need something that is going to go off when I pull the trigger.
     
  5. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    I use Fiocchi primers and the same loader. When I first began useing them I had the same problem. My guess is, because this primer is a tad larger in diameter, you are not seating them deap enough. It takes a little more effort to seat this primer the first time.................Roger
     
  6. SmittyK80

    SmittyK80 TS Member

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    I bought 20 flats of Fiocchi factory White Rhino Hdcp shells and I had 2-4 misfires every 100 in my K80 Trap Special. I also sent my gun back to see if there was a problem with the firing pins or triggers. Gun came back OK. I will be selling the Fiocchi shells as they evidently do not get along with my Krieghoff. All of the other manufacturers shells work just fine.

    Dwight
     
  7. SmittyK80

    SmittyK80 TS Member

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    I bought 20 flats of Fiocchi factory White Rhino Hdcp shells and I had 2-4 misfires every 100 in my K80 Trap Special. I also sent my gun back to see if there was a problem with the firing pins or triggers. Gun came back OK. I will be selling the Fiocchi shells as they evidently do not get along with my Krieghoff. All of the other manufacturers shells work just fine.

    Dwight
     
  8. BRGII

    BRGII TS Member

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    Loaded 40,000 Fiocchi primers with out a misfire. I shoot them in three different Perazzi, and a 90-T. BRGII PS Have noticed that you get light loads in freezing temperatures. Use a RIO then.
     
  9. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Cheddites and I presume Fiocchis have a steel primer cap vs brass on Win, Rem and Fed. Apparently, the K-80 ain't up to it.

    Buz
     
  10. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    Of the 12000+ that I have fired without a misfire, I used them in the following guns. 3 different Model 12's, a Beretta 682 and a Super X-1. No problems with any of them firing these primers. Ed
     
  11. striper

    striper Member

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    I have recently had the same problem with these primers. I have fired over 6000 before but in this last 5000 I have had a few that would fire the second time or if I changed barrels. However it has happened with my O/U and the mod 12. I use the 9000 manual and loaded thousands of shells and this is just a recent thing that has happened. I can not figure out how one or two primers can be sit too deep?
     
  12. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Most fixed breach shotguns can have a problem with some primers. I only use Win 209's in my Brownings.

    My Beretta 390 and Remington 1100 will work with any primer.

    Jim Skeel
     
  13. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    I've shot about 40k of the fiocchi with 2-3 misfires. Work great with beretta and K guns. A lot of browing owners have had problems.
     
  14. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    Browning guns especially bottom barrel can have FTF if the F616 is loaded on a MEC Progressive. I’ve seen it with BT99 and 100’s too though. Some have added a longer firing pin to the bottom bbl.

    Personally I have given up on F616 primers because of poor cold weather performance. They always have gone bang (but barely in the winter) in my guns but I own no Brownings. A gentleman from Texas on SGW.com first identified the solution and why. This works BTW-

    In the mean time, those having problems, try pushing the hull fully into the slot in the shell carrier. Holding the hull fully back into this slot, will more closely align the primer with the hole in the case head, letting it seat without catching on the edge of the primer hole. The Fiocchi primer has a very, very, slight radius on the end of the battery cup, and with any misallignment, it will hang on the edge of the primer hole. As pressure is added, the case head bends upward until the primer finally pops over and is seated with a heavy slam from the spring pressure on the rammer tube. The result is a low seated primer at best and a dished case head at the worst, and sometimes both. These simply won't fire in the lower barrel of Brownings, although most will fire in the top barrels.

    You can fabricate a small guide fixture that you can clamp onto the press frame that will push the hull back into the slot as it is rotated into position to seat the primer, that will facilitate the seating alignment. The case must be pushed back in the slot, but not tight enough to tip the case, as it must be free to slide down as the primer is seated and then raise back up as the rammer is raised.
     
  15. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Deckart. I am not sure about Win or Rem, but I could not go back to Feds! I could push a Fed in with light pressure of the thumb after one loading of Fiocchi! By the way, I am up to 8000 + Fios and never a weak shell or dud! Maybe I am lucky! Used these shells in Lgun, Sgun, and 682x and never a misfire! Tom Rhoads
     
  16. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    I went back to W209 after using F616 in almost all my hulls and never had a problem. Most were STS hulls but a few hundered were AA.
     
  17. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    flincher100 I thought it was evident that the last 2 paragraphs were from the gentleman I referred to on shotgunworld.com (DL Marcum). I apologize and will type slower next time plus add more detail if that would help.

    Like it or not Mec Progressive presses have this issue with F616 primers and it shows up on guns that have shorter firing pins. I have 2 12 ga 9000’s and a 20 9000 along with a Gen 1 automate. I have never had this problem in any of my guns. At the volume I reload I would love to change it all in for a Spolar- as long as I could get an automate to go with it. If you know how I may achive this goal without exchanging a large sum of money I am all ears and eyes!

    The post I linked to is from the reloading section of shotgunworld back in 2006. There are quite a few posts about it if you want to dig around, I posted one link. Or you can just pretend it isn’t an issue. And if it doesn't effect you then it is not.
     
  18. Cold Iron

    Cold Iron Active Member

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    Uh Oh flincher100 I would worry about him if he traded me LOL. I know a person on the State Trap team that had the bottom firing pin of his XT lengthened when these primers first came out. The smith explained that the bottom pin is slightly shorter than the top pin on the Brownings. I was surprised to read awhile back when the K guns started having the same issue as the Brownings but it is a constant. The other is being loaded on a Mec Grabber or 9000. Like you I just gave up on the F616’s, not worth the hassle with the cold and any payload less than 1 and an eighth. Even then can be hit or miss.

    I like the Mec’s don’t get me wrong. If I wasn’t loading for 2 then it wouldn’t be so bad. I’m thinking if I was only loading 20,000 a year the little tweaks every 500-600 rounds wouldn’t bother me. My youngest leaves the house next year and will have to start making his own way and supporting his own shooting. He will take one of the 12ga. 9000's with him. In the mean time I want to make sure he leaves with a burning desire to shoot. Hmmm- be careful what you ask for.
     
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