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PRIMER HELP PLEASE!!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Red Truck 99, Apr 28, 2011.

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  1. Red Truck 99

    Red Truck 99 TS Member

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    My daddy taught me a long time ago that you pretty much get what you pay for. Well he tried anyway. Midway has several brands of shotshell primers on sale. Some brands I have not heard of are considerably cheaper. I guess the question is "Are 209 primers interchangable". If a recipe calls for Winchester 209 primers, is it or is it not ok to use a Remington STS 209 or a Nobelsport 209 or something else 209. Which brand is considered the best and why? I wonder why there is such a price difference. The Nobelsport are $120 a thou and the Remington STS are $205. Point me in the right direction fellers. I trust ya.
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, no, do not substitute one primer brand for another in a given load combination, unless your powder manufacturer says its ok to do so. This generally holds true for hulls, wads, powder, and shot weight. Don't substitute.

    Primers have a measure called "brisance" which means, generally, how hot is the spark. This can affect shotgun load pressures. Some primers are hotter than others, and you should not substitute one for another.

    Most load data tables will clearly list different primers for different load combinations of hull/powder/primer/wad/shot weight.

    Hodgdon, for example, says Nobelsport primers CAN be substituted where their recipes call for Winchester primers. But DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, or anyone else on this forum. Check with the powder manufacturer to assure yourself!
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Nobelsport is OK, but I had enough misfires with them that I will not use them for the shells I use in competition.

    Great for my sub-gauge skeet loads, but I just shoot skeet for fun.
     
  4. oz

    oz Active Member

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    cheddites are working well for me. not a single misfire. oz
     
  5. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I have gone to the Cheddites from Winchester because of price and availability. I don't think I will be going back.
     
  6. paul7177

    paul7177 Member

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    Be careful when using Cheddite primers. About 20% punch thorough when I use them with my K gun. The cost of replacing firing pins is not worth the savings on the primers.
     
  7. Bertmuss

    Bertmuss Member

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    I have used thousands of Cheddites, they feed easily through the reloader and have never had a misfire. They will burn through in light 12 ga loads and in the small gauges, but they work well for me in handicap loads. I have been using Noblesport in small gauges with no problem. RM
     
  8. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "They will burn through in light 12 ga loads and in the small gauges...."

    Help me understand what that means.
     
  9. Bertmuss

    Bertmuss Member

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    Small gauges are 410 and 28 ga. Check around your local gun dealer and have a look at one, they're cute! RM
     
  10. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Help me understand what you mean by 'burn through'.
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    All the 209 size primers are interchangeable in that they will all fit modern shotgun hulls. What you need to know is that they aren't direct substitutes for each other. Each brand will have its own set of loading data. Usually the data varies by one or two grains of powder charge. Not to worry though, you can get the data for what ever primer you end up buying.

    Now as to which brand you should buy, the Remingtons are for some reason the most expensive. They are good primers and that is what I'm currently using because I got a good deal a few years ago, but I do think they are overpriced today. Winchester makes a good primer as do CCI and Federal. I'm not so keen on the imports but a lot of guys swear by them. Primer cost isn't going to be a big factor in your total reloading cost as the difference between the most expensive primer and the cheapest primer works out to less than 50 cents per box of shells. With that in mind, I would get one of the mid price range domestic primers that there is a lot of data for. (Winchester, CCI, Federal)
     
  12. porky

    porky TS Member

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    skeet, Cheddites have a thin metal that the firing pin strikes in order to get the primer to fire. If the firing pin on your shotgun is too long, it will puncture the thin steel on the cheddite primer surface. Then you will see a blackened primer surface on your fired shotgun shell. To fix it, you would remove the stock and press the offending firing pin as far forward as it will go and stone the firing pin in order to shorten it. If you have punctures, it doesn't take too much stoning on the firing pin striking point to alleviate the problem.
     
  13. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Really? You would modify a hardened firing pin just so you could use cheap primers? I would think paying the extra penny would be better.
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I use Rio's w/o any problems and very good pricing, having shot over 50,000 of them in all loadings w/ all powders, w/ all hulls, but have to stay with them once used as the big 3 fall out.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    Winchesters have always been my favorite primer. Since the shortage I've reloaded quite a few thousand of the Cheddites 209. They have been 100% reliable with not one fail to fire or squib load in cold weather. I've been shooting them all winter and it was colder than a well diggers ass this past season. They actually feed better through my MEC Reloaders. I have plenty of primers horded away and I may never switch back to Winchesters.

    I shoot Browning and Beretta target guns and don't have the slightest problem with a piercing issue.

    I've reloaded about 2,000 of the Fiocchi 616's, they are fine also but as far as an import/cheaper primer option I like the Cheddites.
     
  16. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I substitute primers all the time and have for about 35 years.

    I also chronograph my loads, and gotta tell you that chronographed FACTORY loads have a greater Standard Dviation that any of my reloads.

    I use geniune Federal or Winchester wads in all my shells, appropriately sized, of course; straight walled hulls get the Federals (0.718 Dia) and taper hulls get the W-W AA's (0.702 Dia).

    WW
     
  17. Proofdoubles

    Proofdoubles Member

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    Once you use Fiocchi you never go back because they are a little larger in diameter (taper). They slightly enlarge the primer hold and if you go back to Winchester, etc. they do not seat tightly - and may fall out. Just look into the pouch and find the shell without the primer, the primer itself in the bottom of the pouch along with the brand new primer. I do use Fiocchi on occasion but separate those hulls for Fiocchi primers only.
     
  18. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Whiz here.

    First, I am a recoil sissy, so I load a LIGHT shell - 7/8 oz shot, over about 16.5 ~ 16.8 grains of Promo (my goal is between 1,000 and 1,100 fps).

    I have played with changing primers and wads and see no big differences in speeds or pressure signs.

    NOTE - with this load I will never come near max pressures, so my substitutions are all in the 'safe' zone.

    Biggest observation is that is that the new AA hulls like the Remington wads (not near my loading bench, but the 7/8 ~ 1 oz ones), beyond that 'big name' wads load more easily than the cheaper, off brand ones - only an observation.

    On the heels of this, this load can develop bloopers easily - very low velocity, and so low pressure. Again, the brand name wads, which load easier, tend to have fewer...

    Your results may vary.
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I just got an e-mail from Ron Reiber, product manager at Hodgdon Powders, and he confirms Hodgdon still says Nobelsport 209 Primers can be safely substituted where their data shows Winchster 209.

    Use this information at your discretion.
     
  20. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    200k + Cheddites with no issues. No misfires, no punctured caps, no worn firing pins, no runs, no hits, no errors. Guns were; Alfermann, MX2000, MX15, TM-1, 1100, 870, 90-T, Citori, 2 BT-99's. In some cases I use WW209 loading data.

    Buz
     
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