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Primer fit in Rem hulls, why is that a problem?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mrskeet410, Apr 29, 2011.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I read of folks vexed by non-Rem primers not seating flush in Remington hulls. They don't for me either. But I don't see that as a problem. When the hulls are crimped the primers go flush, and will subsequently seat flush in that hull.

    So, what's the problem?
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I've never had any problems seating primers in Rem hulls with my MEC 9000H???? Of course it seats primers with pressure from inside the hull unlike PWs do.

    MK, use a tube in your 1/2 ton arbor press to seat primers and you won't have hull base distortions?

    Hap
     
  3. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Never a problem seating primers in Remington hulls and I ahve used most of the different brands including the supposedly oversize Fiocci 616. My loader is an older 366 Pacific which has a seating post that applies pressure on the internal base for primer seating.
     
  4. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    There are Rem hulls and then there are Rem hulls. I'll bet a nickel you NEVER have a problem seating any primer in an STS hull. But if you load enough Rem promo hulls, sooner or later you'll have primer seating issues. The problem is plastic boogers in the primer pockets left over from their forming/punching operation. Take a look at your primers and you'll see that STS primers are unique in that they are short and very rounded around the flash hole. Other makes are longer/squarer and run into those boogers.

    Some people have taken to drilling out the pockets to use their favorite primers. Not me. I don't buy a lot of Rem primers anymore, but I was given a large batch of promo 20's I want to use and they wouldn't take other primers. So it was worth buying some STS primers for those.
     
  5. mike b.

    mike b. Member

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    Use all the different Remington hulls exclusively and no problems with Fiocchi, Wolf, CCI, Cheddite, Winchester, and Noble Sport 209 primers.
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    MK, same as the MEC loaders. The drop tube pushes on the inside base of the hull and down on the primer to seat it. Your chamber idea is about the same technique as used on PWs on the primer station, it holds onto the flanges of the hull for primer insertion also.

    Take a peek at how the MEC system is set up to work for primer insertion? The hull base is supported by a flat bearing surface which rides down over the primer. No distortions at all with mine using any hull or primer.

    Hap
     
  7. ExFedex

    ExFedex Active Member

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    Am reloading once fired Rem.Gun Club hulls with Cheddite 209 primers on a MEC 9000 and a Grabber. Just lowering the primer ram/powder drop tube an 1/8" has ended the primer not fully seating problem. Coil spring still not binding.Once shell is fired with a Cheddite primer the hole is fireformed and problem is gone.
     
  8. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Unknown1 has the answer and the pictures to illustrate WHY. Yeah, you can FORCE a Winchester primer into the pocket of an STS hull but they don't fit very good.

    John C. Saubak
     
  9. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    I am thankful for all the expertise shared on this message board. I am particularly pleased to learn that I'm not alone with my primer problems wit Gun Club hulls. i'll continue to store them, but will probably only use them when my supply of AAs is depleted. That could be a decade or more.

    Thanks again for all the sharing.

    Larry Frieders
     
  10. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

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    I wouldn't give up on your small issue of reloading them. I'll bet your problem is nothing more than a rammer tube adjustment if you're reloading on a MEC.

    I can put out some quality reloads with the Gun Clubs, Game Loads, Shur-Shots and the Sport Loads. I primarily reload these with a Fiocchi 616 and these are shells I use when shooting sporting, 5-stand and wobble. I shoot autos at these games and don't care if I get my hulls back or if it's hard to accumulate your spent hulls.

    I primarily reload the old style AA's and STS's/Nitros and havn't found any issues to exist with Winnies, Federals or Cheddites.
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    MK, I see what your plan was now, thanks.

    It's been a lot of years since I've seen one of those old Lee Load-Alls. Evidently there isn't a primer seating adjustment for depth on it either?

    If pre-priming hulls was that high on my priority list, I'd get an older MEC single stage and use it for seating any primers?

    You are absolutely correct, primer/hull makers are tooling up so we must use their combinations for ease of loading per your photographs. The MEC loaders trump that bit of plastic left in place by Remington and they seat all primers to the hilt. They just push that bit of plastic out of the primers way of seating, accomplished via the internal drop/push tube doing its work inside the hulls.

    Hap

    Hap
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    MK, heres a picture of a Winchester 209 and a Remington 97 size 209. Both are very close to the same OAL but the Win primer is smaller at the top by about 4 thousandths! It tapers down to the base which is approx. 4 to 5 thousandths bigger, which is the same size as the Rem primers all the way down!

    Is your Winchester primer in the picture you posted one of the new primers? Mine is several years old, both primers.
    hapmectweaks_2008_030316.jpg


    If so, Winchester has changed the shape of their primers once again? Remington also?

    Hap
     
  13. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    I gave up trying to load Rem on my PW. The ridge around the end of the primer pocket is molded in and intentional. If the press is adjusted to seat the primer deeper the base of the hull will distort just as Unknown1 states. It is only a problem with about 10% of the hulls but that is a too much.
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    The answer is simple.............when you're loading Remington hulls, use Remington primers. Winchester hulls?--->use Winchester primers.

    John C. Saubak
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Old Cowboy, I've loaded shotshells since the early 60s and not till recently did we have to use OEM parts to load shells, so to speak.

    Why would reloading manuals give certain loads with primers other than originals to that hull? Because not everyone loads hull specific components all the time. That is exactly what the big three had hoped for making all the changes in hulls and primer configurations, you'd buy all their components to load their hulls.

    Mk, not a problem guy and thanks for clearing it up!

    As I said previously, those of us using the MEC reloaders, don't have the problems associated with primer seating in Remington hulls. Other loaders that rely on hull flanges alone to seat any brand of shotshell primers is outa luck it seems? What ever turns your prop or seats the primers correctly is what counts.

    Hap
     
  16. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Am trying to remember how many different brands of primers I have used since the early 60s when I started re-loading---mostly Rems.-also Win.- CCI -Alcan -Fed -Herters -Nobel Sport --Wolf & probably more I can't think of just now. Have loaded papers-- CF AAs--just about every Rem. ever made,-- Fed.-Champion II (plastic)-- Gold Medals-- even a few eurotrash & don't have any primer seating issues, in fact I intentionally seat it slightly proud & let the wad insertion station or final crimp station finish setting them exactly flush. The Pacific--Hornady machines I use always have the hull supported on a flat surface as stated by "wolfram". Don't think I would want a machine that didn't keep the base completely supported, have only had 2 brands of loaders Mec & Pacific (now Hornady) liked the Pacifics best so am still using them 35+ yrs. Ross Puls
     
  17. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    UNKNOWN1 - Good job with the pic and explanations.

    Pics ARE worth a 1000 words.

    Whiz
     
  18. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    I have two "defective" reloaders (PW and Spolar) and have decided that it is best to use AA primers in AA hulls and STS primers in STS hulls. Luckily I have access to whatever components I need and do not have to "make do" with whatever may be available.

    After ruining a firing pin on a K-80, I do not use "off brand" primers.

    Don Verna
     
  19. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Loading on a MEC, I've NEVER had a problem getting any primer to fit in any hull. Loading on a P/W, I never had any luck getting a Winchester primer to fit in a rem hull. The P/W is gone, the MECs are back.
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Don V., I didn't see where anyone said PWs or Spolars were inferior loaders? I merely pointed out my thoughts in response to threads question.

    "Primer fit in Rem hulls, why is that a problem?"

    I even went back years and photographed an old Remington 97 primer, size 209 for comparisons sake. PWs certainly didn't have any problems seating those old primers at the time? Why today, is the question and it was answered. If all hulls and primers were the same today as yesteryear, we wouldn't be having this discussion! BUT, hulls and primers have changed and PW and possibly Spolar still relies on the hulls flange to hold the hull while the primer is pushed in from the bottom. What wasn't a problem years ago suddenly became one once ammo companies changed both hulls and primer configurations. MEC and other loaders that push the hull down on a primer wasn't intentional to make other loaders look bad either, it was just an idea that works for that type of loader. Looks to me as though these experimental hulls and primers are with us forever so that leaves another question, will PW and Spolar adapt so all the trash can be loaded as well?

    Hap
     
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