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Primer comparison ?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by 635 G, Sep 25, 2008.

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  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Since there is a question about Wolf primers, I wonder if anyone has any info on the following?

    Say we use the Win 209 as the base line- What are equals? Which primers are cooler & or hotter? I read in the Hodgdon book that a Nobelsport 209 can be interchanged with the Win209. That is the only real info I have ever read. I use Cheddites, CCI 209 & Nobelsports---Thanks

    Lou
     
  2. Bucko43

    Bucko43 Well-Known Member

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    Lou,
    I did this comparison once when a buddy of mine bought a case of the nobelsport primers (when they first came out).

    I compared the nobelsports to the Cheddites and the Win 209.

    When throwing a micrometer on the nobelsports, they are out of round, they are inconsistent in diameter from one primer to the next, and they are .003 to .005 larger in diameter than the Win 209. If you use a nobelsport primer in the shell and then try to re-load the same shell with a Win 209, the primer will fall out. The nobelsports will elongate the hole and enlarge it as well.
    But they're cheap!

    Cheddites have a steel face versus a much softer brass face on the Win 209. I've actually broken firing pins when switching from Wincesters to Cheddites.

    Kevin
     
  3. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Not only with the Noblesports enlatge the primer pocket, they dont shoot well in cold weather. I went back to federals
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone tell me if this is a reliable test of primer strength? Load some empty hulls with primers to be tested. Place empty primed hull in your shotgun and go into a dark room. Fire the primed hulls in the dark and measure the length and intensity of the flame that comes out the end of the barrel. The primer with the longest, brightest flame is the strongest. The ones with equal flashes have the same strength. If you decide to perform this test be sure to wear eye and ear protection. HMB
     
  5. FN in MT

    FN in MT TS Member

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    I have been buying the Fiocchi 616's for $98 per 5K box. Wins or Feds are 45% higher.

    Any comparisons on the new 616 Fiocchis??

    FN
     
  6. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    To FN in MT, I also bought some Fiocchi primers in Spokane. So far they are working OK for me. I don't believe they are quite as hot as the Win209's but a lot less money. I use a Win209 for the first reload in a new AA and use the Fiocchi after that.
     
  7. michshooter

    michshooter TS Member

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    I got this list a couple of years ago and so far t has proven very accurate. I would NOT recommend using this comparison for HOT or magnum loads, but for our mild trap loads it should prove sufficient.

    Shotgun Primer Catagories
    Hot
    Fed 209A
    CCI 209M
    CCI 209SC (discontinued)
    Med
    Win 209
    CCI 209
    Fed 209 (discontinued)
    Cheddite 209
    Fiocchi 616
    Noble Sport
    Mild
    Rem 209 Premier

    Does this mean that all primers within a given category are exactly the same....no, but they are close enough that they can safely share the same data.

    ....Michshooter
     
  8. Bucko43

    Bucko43 Well-Known Member

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    MIA,
    I'm not and expert on the material used on the face of the primer (could be brass or copper, same color though), I just know that the Cheddites have the steel face and are harder than a donkey dong 'cause I broke a firing pin in two different guns before I found out what was causing it. Took me about 30 seconds to decide to sell all the Cheddites I had and go back to Win 209's. I'm sorry, but I just don't trust the French for anything but wine...

    Kevin
     
  9. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The only statement about equivalency was made by Hodgdon powder. They state that the Winchester W209 and the Nobel Sport can use the same data. They did not say they are the same, just that the same data may be used. They clarified that fact for me during a phone call a few years ago.

    As far as all of the other primers are concerned. They will give different pressure results under different circumstances. There is NO valid guide for interchangeability, since there really is none. Any test that you can do, like the one described above by observing the length of the flame from a primer will tell absolutely nothing of value. Primers are made from different compositions and no visual comparison will tell anything. I even had one guy tell me that he would load a wad with a primer only, and then measure how far it traveled. His results were surprising, since one of the hottest primers sent the wad a lesser distance.

    Primers are pretty spooky, since there are loads that go contrary to what you would have thought. Hotters primers can sometimes result in lower pressures and milder primers can give higher pressures. All you need to do is look at the data from several sources to see that.

    In summary, use reliable data and don't swap out ANY component unless you have data to support it.
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Strange, but the Cheddites seem to smell more like rotten Brie cheese with PB. It's amazing to see how many different examples of misinformation continue to be spread, AND Believed, by people who should know better!
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    RE Cheddites, I used at least 100,000 of them in the 80s and 90s and intermixed Winchesters every so often. I never had a broken firing pin, I never had Winchesters fall out after Cheddites, and loads with the two primers being the only difference were chronographed. I found with the same load, but the primer, the cheddites produced 10 shot averages that were just a smidge faster (maybe 5 to 8 fps) than with Winchesters but the individual shots with either seemed too near to tell them apart. Since I load light anyway, I used the two primers interchangeably without any negative issue.....breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  12. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    OK, I've got a question. I load 17 grs. of promo, wt12 wad in an old style AA wad. When I use a Rem primer it's a nice, soft shooter. When I use a Fiocchi primer, the load seems to have more felt recoil.


    The difference in the primers in the categories listed above explains the difference.


    The question is: Can I drop the powder by a grain or two with the Fiocchi, and make the load equal to having the rem primer in it? Obviously, I'm wondering about this because of the price difference between the Fiocchi and Rem.


    Brett D.
     
  13. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    blizzard

    I don't know how low I'd drop the powder charge, but 1/2 to 1 grain would probably work. If you have a chronograph, it would make it easier to see the difference.
     
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