1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Price of Sub-Gauge Ammo???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by vpr80, Apr 7, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,636
    Ok random and somewhat stupid question, but why oh why does sub-gauge ammo (28 and 410) cost DOUBLE of 12 and 20 gauge? Hulls are smaller, less lead, etc, but double the price? I just don't get it.
     
  2. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,266
    1/2 the shell - twice the price, doesn't seem right does it?

    I would guess that the lower volume of sales require a much higher margin.
     
  3. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,636
    Maybe if the price wasn't double there would be more demand for the smaller gauges. I personally would really like some small gauge guns for variety, but the cost of $100 per flat makes me think twice or that I would need to start reloading.
     
  4. boomer

    boomer TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,511
    Location:
    NJ
    The big three ammo makers only produce the 28/410 stuff few days out of the whole year!! It's strictly supply/demand. The small bore stuff is much harder to load--esp the 410's and they account for just a few % points of the total production.
     
  5. missed some

    missed some TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    708
    the guns are the same way. Price an 1100 in .410 or 28 gauge compared to a 12 ga.
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,676
    In the 70's .410 ammo was a lot cheaper than 12 gauge. That was great for skeet shooters, but no one else used it. 28 gauge was always a lot more than 12 gauge. Sometime in 80's they decided to price the 410's and the 28 gauge the same - at the 28 gauge price.
     
  7. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    When I shot serious skeet I used to buy enough 28ga and .410 from the vendors at the World Shoot and have it drop-shipped to me -- usually saved me at least $10 per flat + sales tax --- and then rather than reloading I'd sell the empties to those that liked to reload and my net price was down to that of shooting 12ga and 20ga.

    Key to cost cutting is not to reload but sell the empties --- also saves a lot of time and effort running down components + the time it takes to reload --- and anyone who's a serious shooter and reloads the .410 and 28 ga more than a couple of times is shooting an inferior load.
     
  8. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    929
    DB Bill has it right! Grab a bunch of new shells when the rebates are going on. With once-fired .410 and 28 gauge empties bringing 15-20 cents each on places like GunBroker, your net cost to shoot factory shells gets down to less than $4.00 per box. .....Rick
     
  9. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,636
    Wow crazy prices for used shells. Ok cool that makes sense then.
     
  10. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,423
    Bill, I have to disagree with that last statement of yours. I load the 28's and 410's until the petals blow off or the sides split. I have never had a problem with doing this. As long as the shot stays in the shell. Now please explain to me how or why this shot would not pattern the same after going another 30 inchs down my barrel before leaving the barrel. I or my squad mates never have noticed a lower of off sounding shell, and I have never noticed any difference in shell speed while shooting. I do use my better hulls for bigger shoots, but have never noticed any difference in speed from one week to the next. With the 410 HS hulls I almost never have any whistlers as well. Your luck may vary. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  11. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    NE Mississippi
    I am with Jeff. I have choreographed many .410 loads, factory and reloaded. The muzzle speed of .410's does not fall off appreciably as the crimps wear out, my speculation is that the sidewall friction of the long wad column contributes most of the "crimp" resistance. I shoot .410's as long as the hull will hold shot or until the hulls start rifling. I showed up at our state shoot one time and did not realize I had brought 4 boxes of worn-out "shoot one more time" practice shells, broke 99, missed a Low 2. I have tried several powders through the years, but nothing works as well as dirty-nasty W296/H110.

    I quit shooting factory loads when they upped the muzzle speed over 1300 fps. Remington started the madness and Winchester followed suit with the AA MAX.

    Michael Goines
     
  12. tractorboy

    tractorboy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    Northeast Texas
    mag410 said: "I quit shooting factory loads when they upped the muzzle speed over 1300 fps. Remington started the madness and Winchester followed suit with the AA MAX. "

    That may explain why, on the middle stations, I tend to shoot in front of targets with STS factory 410's, but don't have that trouble with my 1200fps reloads.

    Mag410, could you share your reload recipe for the 410?
     
  13. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    Those who reload until they wear out --- how many reloads do you get on a .410 hull?
     
  14. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,268
    At least 10.
     
  15. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    What kind of average are you all shooting with your .410 reloads?
     
  16. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    NE Mississippi
    <html>

    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
    <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
    <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
    <title>New Page 1</title>
    </head>

    <body>


    tractorboy: 13.5 grains of W296 or H110, W209 primer, 225 grains of hard 9's, PC .410 for the first couple of load in once-fired AA CF hulls, AA 410 wads after that as the hull volume increases. 
    The old Winchester manual shows 1150 fps.  The chronograph showed 1215-25,
    but .410's always show faster than they should on a light detecting chronograph.<br>
    <br>
    DB Bill: at least a dozen with the old AA's, I have not shot up any HS hulls as of yet, but I would expect them to last as long. 
    I suspect the mild load contributes to hull longevity.<br>
    <br>
    DB Bill: I have not shot much
    the last few years as a result of eye problems and a divorce, but from 1994-2007
    I averaged .96+ and two best years .9738 and .9750.


    Michael Goines


    </body>

    </html>
     
  17. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    Michael --- that's a great average with the .410 even with new ammo.
     
  18. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    NE Mississippi
    <html>

    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
    <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
    <meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
    <title>New Page 1</title>
    </head>

    <body>


    <br>
    DB Bill: The .410 can get inside your head. I
    shoot my reloads because I have more confidence in them than in new
    shells. My tendency is to shoot in front of targets with the .410.
    Using the same "sight picture" as the bigger gauges, the fast factory
    .410 loads would shift the pattern
    some amount, and no I do not know how much, in front. When you combine
    the 4-5" smaller pattern with the pattern shift to the front, it is very
    easy to shoot in front of a target that would have broke with the other
    guns. Is all of this important, is is if I believe it is. :)<br>
    <br>
    One of my friends Frank Callahan won the .410 at the World Shoot a couple years
    ago with Remington reloads.<br>
    <br>
    Michael Goines


    </body>

    </html>
     
  19. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    Tractorboy - The conventional wisdom among the New England skeeters in the 80s was that Remington jacked-up the speed of their 410s to increase reliability in their notoriously malfunction prone 410 1100s.

    Reloading dorks think 410s at 1300+ fps "pattern better", whatever that means.
     
  20. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    Mag410 -

    Frank Callahan - Was he a Remington employee, or a least shot with Remington employees?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.