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Pressure test double charges?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, Sep 26, 2009.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Has anyone ever pressure tested double charges on 1-1/8 oz shells? Now that would be interesting in light of the recent pictures of CG failures. Something fast and low volume like RD or e3 or TiteGroup. I've asked Tom Armbrust who has done our club testing.
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Joe, I'll be surprised if Tom says he's interested. I wouldn't be; not in a million years.

    Neil
     
  3. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Gee Neil, why not? Don't want to find yourself on a witness stand? Gun mfr is being exposed thru failures. Tuff times.

    Tom mentioned his gun is rated quite high. I don't remember the numbers though.
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The transducer, PCB 167a, is rated for 15,000 PSI. It'll take more, but what happens if it sees more than 15,000 is not spelled out.

    Neil
     
  5. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    Someone on here as tried all sorts of screwed up shotshell loads. Double powder, double shot, all different combos and has never even come close to proof pressures.
     
  6. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Based on a bolt action rifle and 50 BMG brass converted to a shotgun shell..and also converted to Federal 215 Large rifle mag. primers..we got over 2000 fps at 37,000 psi... regular wads were destroyed.. hard card wads stood up to the test with an Alcan PFS at the base.. Patterns were crap.. Today.. with steel shot.. I think the test would be vastly different..

    It is my understanding Perazzi proofs at approx. 20,000 psi.. It's my understanding the curve and spikes have more to do with total destruction than just the number itself..
     
  7. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    didn't Bruce Bowen do one of these test's??
     
  8. mike b.

    mike b. Member

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    I would think the load without a wad would have a pressure release through the spaces in the shot. Would like to see some data.
     
  9. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    Leave the wad out of a hull in a P-W and the crimps fold into the hull. As soon as the shell leaves the loader the contents will dump. Oh, you bet they will!

    Carol Lister
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    No wad = no pressure. HMB
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HMB- In the single test I did, with no wad and a double powder charge, I did generate some pressure. Enough to open the crimp part of the way and some shot traveled about 5 feet from the barrel. I probably generated around 25 pounds of chamber pressure.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Pat, the primer did that, the powder just fizzed. How did you get a crimp?
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jerry- Crimp is easy with a bit of toilet paper on top of the shot. If you want to try it, I would suggest, for several reasons, to only use new toilet paper. Used paper could result in a really s#### load.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    After reading this thread, I'm still puzzled about why anyone would even want to bother testing double charges since they would not ever knowingly build one.

    To me, it's like putting a double dose of habaƱeros into the chili just to see how badly it will hurt!

    Carol Lister
     
  15. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Carol, if there is a chance of something burning or exploding, men are gonna be involved. It's our nature.
     
  16. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Carol
    The attempt is not to see what will happen so much as to try to explain how can a gun blow up.

    If it blows up because of a double charge etc, some will feel better (safer) in that it has been shown that an error will cause the blow up. they will conclude (possibly incorrectly) that if they do not make a mistake they are safe.

    If the gun cannot be made to blow up with a reloading error, then why are some guns blowing up? This causes great concern for K-80's and CG's; which seem to be stricken with the problem. Even if we do everything right, these guns may fail.

    My personal opinion is that both CG and Krieghoff have tested the obvious ways to achieve an overload by mixing and or doubling components and could not get their barrels to come apart. This is neither expensive or difficult to do and would get them "off the hook" so to speak.

    There is another reason barrels are failing. They may have found a problem and modified production methods to address this (most likely scenario) - or; they may not know what is causing the problem.

    A friend of mine had the barrel separate from the monoblock of his K-80 (an older model). It was repaired by Krieghoff at no charge. If he had not been observant, could repeated firing have caused a failure like those we have seen???

    I now check the barrel/monoblock joint every time I put my gun away.

    Don Verna
     
  17. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    <blockquote>"...If it blows up because of a double charge etc, some will feel better (safer) in that it has been shown that an error will cause the blow up. they will conclude (possibly incorrectly) that if they do not make a mistake they are safe."</blockquote>

    My concern would be that reloaders might get the idea that all this business about weighing powder drops and using the correct primers was really just unnecessary fretting on the part of some Chicken Little reloaders and that mixed and matched components are actually a lot less dangerous than some would make it out to be... and I'm going to shoot beside some of these people!

    Carol Lister
     
  18. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    >>>"My concern would be that reloaders might get the idea that all this business about weighing powder drops and using the correct primers was really just unnecessary fretting on the part of some Chicken Little reloaders and that mixed and matched components are actually a lot less dangerous than some would make it out to be... and I'm going to shoot beside some of these people!"<<<


    Carol,

    I think that the most important thing is to find out what is REALLY causing some guns to blow up. Then we can address the REAL problem rather than being paranoid about some relatively insignificant aspect of reloading.

    If switching primers in a recipe is causing guns to blow up, then I want to know that. OTOH, if switching primers in a recipe simply means our load will have some insignificant increase, then I want to know that too. The sooner we know the REAL reasons, the sooner we can address the REAL problems.

    Easystreet
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Carol,

    I heard that guy shooting to your right the other day say, " if the components fit, I load them." HMB
     
  20. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    hmb,

    I thought I hear him say that... lucky for me he's a right-hander; his chubby forearm and his chicken wing gun mount will catch some of the shrapnel headed my way!

    Carol Lister
     
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