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Pressure and recoil

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 9point3, May 5, 2011.

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  1. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    What is the relationship of peak pressure to recoil?

    What is the relationship of the pressure curve shape and recoil?

    It seems like a rapidly accelerating payload would recoil more than one that takes the whole length of the barrel to get up to speed
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Simple answer. None.

    This is debated every 2 or 3 months here. Bottom line, Neil Winston did a double blind test, and nobody could tell the difference.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There is a relationship. When the pressue is zero there is no recoil. As the pressure increases the recoil increases until the gun blows up. HMB
     
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    hmb,

    You answer with that same, silly reply, every time.

    OF COURSE, if you're using the same powder, the same hull, shot weight, wad, primer, and gun, and you add more powder, the pressure goes up and the recoil goes up (and the recoil goes up because the muzzle velocity also goes up NOT because the pressure goes up.)

    But you know that's not what he was asking.
     
  5. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Two major factors that effect recoil: Velocity & Payload.

    Bryan
     
  6. smokeater6844

    smokeater6844 Member

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    I've seen these threads on recoil before and both sides make a good case. I don't believe I could tell with any accuracy if something was happening in 5 miliseconds or 7 miliseconds. That being said, my son started shooting trap a few years ago at the age of 12. We started experimenting with different powders,wads etc. We use 1oz of #8s. I am very methodical on the powder charge and lead drop, sticking to the advertised recipe to a "T".
    We had been using PB and decided to try some Titewad to cut cost a little. The PB load of 20.5 gr. with an advertised pressure of 7700psi. The Titewad 16.7 gr. was advertised as 9200 psi. Both called for the WAA12SL wad. Both loads were supposed to be 1200 FPS although I don't have a chronograph to compare the actual speed.
    We headed off to practice one evening with the new reloads. I had never mentioned anything to my son about a change in recoil. After the first box my son came to me and said he did not want to shoot these shells anymore because they made the gun hit him in the face.
    Now I don't know about all of the science involved in what makes recoil but, this example was as close as I can come to an equal comparison between two shells and my son told me there was a difference in the felt recoil.

    Brian "Robbie's Dad"
     
  7. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Brian,

    The key is, you don't know the muzzle velocity.

    I'm willing to bet money the Titegroup load has a higher muzzle velocity. And you just don't know until you measure it.

    And good for you for getting Robbie started shooting.
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Didn't a guy named Newton write something on this back in the day!?
     
  9. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Here are some charts to calculate recoil .......... note that NONE of them look at pressure!


    http://www.10xshooters.com/calculators/Shotgun_Recoil_Calculator.htm

    http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

    http://stevespages.com/brecoil.shtml

    http://zknives.com/bali/brcstgn.shtml
     
  10. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    It seems to reason that if an ounce of shot accelerates slowly to 1200fps compared to an ounce of shot accelerating quickly to 1200fps there would be some difference in the recoil(even if it cant be felt by the human shoulder)
     
  11. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Placebos "work" for some people. The mind is a wonderful resource.

    In the end, perception is reality; and "facts" serve to confused the convinced.

    Don Verna
     
  12. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Part of it is definitional. To people, 'Recoil' means ... and ... and ... or ... or ..., but from a physics perspective, it is an expression of momentum, and pressure has no part in the calculation.

    The shape of the curves with a fast v. a slow powder is different, but the difference to peak pressure is a couple of 10,000th of a second.

    Bob
     
  13. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    Robbie's Dad. Why don't you get some AA Lite and load to 1100 fps using the 1oz of 8s and the same wad. He'll like you even more. D Winter
     
  14. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    Robbie's Dad. Why don't you get some AA Lite and load to 1100 fps using the 1oz of 8s and the same wad. He'll like you even more. D Winter
     
  15. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    Robbie's Dad. Why don't you get some AA Lite and load to 1100 fps using the 1oz of 8s and the same wad. He'll like you even more. D Winter
     
  16. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    Robbie's Dad. I've used a lot of PB and I didn't get complete powder burning with one ounce loads. Maybe that is why they don't kick as much because it maybe slower. PB seems to like 1 1/8 loads better. Can't get the back button to behave and resends message. D Winter
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Old Doc, try the edit button? That should remove the extra posts.

    Hap
     
  18. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Velocity does not cause recoil,it's acceleration that does. Newton said so. It was Aristotle that thought it was velocity, but he was wrong.

    I could care less if you can feel the difference, the math proves it. Whether YOU can feel the difference or not is up to you. That's why any human tests are a joke.
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    E=MV.

    HM
     
  20. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    It's MA. You can only use V if A is constant. It's first grade physics....look it up.
     
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