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Premium lead shot vs cheap soft shot ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hammer1, Dec 5, 2012.

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  1. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    Not talking about the benefits of using premium shot or the retail price of premium shot...

    But at the manufacturing cost level, it seems to me that the cost of the minor amount of antimony or other hardening ingredient necessary to turn soft shot into premium shot is so small as to be almost non-detectable.

    Back when I had custom alloys prepared for making premium cast rifle and handgun bullets by adding just a little more tin and a little more antimony it didn't materially change the final alloy cost too much. If I remember right and it has been awhile, tin was about 10X the price of lead and antimony maybe 3X the price of lead, but both were used as small percentages compared to the lead base. I always went with the best usable alloy for my purposes.

    Is it the ingredient cost difference or the pain of having another blend (SKU) necessary in the manufacturing process that drives the price of premium shot ?

    .
     
  2. willing

    willing Member

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    Around here chilled shot is about a dollar less than magnum. If they put the extra antimony in magnum I'd gladly pay a dollar extra.

    Bill
     
  3. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    A dollar for the extra performance is nothing.

    Here locally the stores do not carry two grades of shot.

    They have one grade and if you're lucky they have it in the size shot you want.

    To hear people talk about it, I thought premium hard shot was nearly double the price of regular shot.

    .
     
  4. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Currently antimony is selling in a raw state for about $5.75 US per lb. So if my math is correct ... to go from 3% to 6% antimony would cost approximately an additional $4.30 per bag. (25 lb. X .03 = .75 lb. X $5.75 = $4.31) Bill Malcolm
     
  5. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    I was thinking the benefit in Trap shooting was not energy transfer but improved patterns due to less deformed shot.

    .
     
  6. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Where is Neil Winston when we need him? He has probably already done the study. Bill Malcolm
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Bill,

    You left part of the equation out. You need to subtract the cost of .75lb of lead, which equals approximately 75 cents. This makes the cost increase $3.55 a bag. HMB
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Its never been more than a buck or two difference b/w chilled or magnum shot around here.
     
  9. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Rick, It is all about pattern improvement. I don't think you will find any pure lead shot. Even chilled shot has antimony. Hard shot will result in improved patterns, the question is how much improvement. If I were shooting for money , I would want the hardest shot, but I am not sure it would actually change my scores.
     
  10. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    HArd shot maintians a higher percent of pellets in the pattern, this has been proven time and time again( Brister, Winston, Winchester, Remington),this being said it does not benefit all shooters. The main advantage is at 27 yard shooters, a 20 yard shooter the benefit is not as great. Singles and doubles shooters, not a big advantage if much at all, Long caps is where it matters. Keep in mind this is my opinion, your mileage may vary. Scott
     
  11. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction, HMB. Bill Malcolm
     
  12. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Rick,

    I agree, shot is going to deform no matter the hardness, on ignition, and compression in the forcing cones, and choke. Simply the reason why chokes of the same constrictions are rated differently, between steel and lead.
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    If you get your lead from wheel weights it's harder than magnum shot. lI don't know where you would get pure lead.

    We can't buy soft shot around here, no one sells it.

    HM
     
  14. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    halfmile, not sure that modern ww's are very hard. I have read that ww's are about 3% antimony, down from about 9% from years ago. I have a supply of shot made from pure ww's. I sent some to a fellow poster here who requested some to test. He had made a shot hardness tester like Neil Winston's. He said my shot was softer than Rem mag shot, which is supposed to be 6%. That shot tested 2.5% less pellets in the 40yd pattern than Rem shot.
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Just buy Eagle magnum and you've got West Coast chilled!!
     
  16. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Rick, What is painfully obvious to me is that if you have patterned lots of loads you must have never bothered to count the holes. Premium shot puts more holes in the same pattern. Plain and simple.

    If you feel that hard shot will not pattern better and hit harder due to more pellets on the target you are deluding yourself.

    Weather or not you personally can make use of the extra pellets is neither here nor there.

    The fact is that you will have more holes in the pattern paper with premium shot.

    A fact that is even more important when you shoot 3/4 oz loads in a 28ga and 1/2 ounce loads in a 410 ga.

    Important when you are shooting 7/8 oz in a 12ga as well.

    If you feel that a 7/8 oz load is all you need, I suspect that the proof that premium shot puts more holes in the paper will be lost on you. You already feel that you are not losing any targets with just a 7/8 oz load.

    I tend to agree with you to a certain extent about how much is enough but the fact remains that premium shot puts not only more pellets in the load it puts more of them in the pattern.

    We can argue weather or not it makes a diffrence all we want and nobody will win that arguement.
    What can not be argued is that premium shot puts more pellets in a 30 inch circle at 42 yards then soft or chilled shot does.Jeff
     
  17. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    Thank you for taking the time and effort to share the Neil Winston post.

    Appreciate it.

    .
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    When hard shot came into production we tested it on thrown beer cans. Hard shot loaded shells would drive the hit can much farther than those hit with soft shot.

    How's that for science!!
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    That's silly science. HMB
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Well, we had to empty those beer cans first before conducting the experiment!!
     
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