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PRE SQUAD.COM and thr Grand {lets vote}

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by gundog, Apr 8, 2007.

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  1. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    I wonder why the ATA is holding ite menbership back from using PRE SQUAD.Com for the Grand? Lets vote here yes or no on this wonderful service. Should we the ATA use PRE SQUAD.Com for the Grand? I vote YES!! Just for the record iam not a critic of the ATA i support them 100% but its time to move forward with this service.
     
  2. Ken X

    Ken X TS Member

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    A vote HERE mean absolutely nothing.
     
  3. k80kid

    k80kid Member

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    I vote yes. I also sent an email to the ATA at: shodkey@shootata.com
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OK, we've got three "yeas," that's enough to go forward with.

    You all remember the empty and partial squads at previous Grands (but not Sparta). That comes from allocating too many squads, and people filling up the end ones. Or the early ones and some end ones too.

    Sparta costs - at a rough figure - $4500 per hour to run the line. So, obviously, we can't allow any empty squads, we have to fill them all.

    So: - how many squads should we put on Presquad.com? Let's say in the first 12 events. You understand the way this works, don't you? You don't put up the whole event, you just put up some, wait 'til they fill, and then add more available squads.

    In a week, (or so) you will be able to get presquad forms off the ShootATA.com. Maybe to mail, maybe to submit electronically.

    Now: think carefully what all the differences may be between mailing them in and using Presquad.com.

    Neil
     
  5. shotgunfun

    shotgunfun TS Member

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    Mr. Winston, hello. I have these thoughts, right or wrong....

    Whether or not the Grand uses Presquad.com.... don't you fill so many first? I will say that I really like presquad.com. I have used it several times already this year and the thing I notice is that once they start filling, it seems they fill quickly......I think it encourages people TO presquad more than mailing them in does. We NEVER used to presquad and now I almost always do..... when you mail in a presquad form you don't even know that they have the check unless you check with your bank.....and then nothing to show when or where you shoot. I think that presquad.com makes a shoot bigger........now, that being said, I know the Grand is already big......but if everyone on here saw that their buds were going......they would want to be there even more! I don't know all of the ins and outs of the ATA........I know that......BUT, I do notice these things on presquad.com....I will tell you we presquadded for the OPEN today, because the times were filling up that we like to shoot....lol........doesn't even mean we will shoot at the time we think we will.....but we feel good about having it "done".

    I hope the ATA will consider presquad.com in the future. But they will have to determine if it works for them, I know every shoot is probably different.

    Respectfully,

    Lorna
     
  6. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    I vote for PreSquad and I still don't understand why the service isn't available at Elysburg PA shoots.

    As long as presquadding is allowed it makes little difference whether you send in a paper and a stamp or do it on line. That being said it's a helluva lot more convenient to do it on line especially since there are no costs involved.

    Let's get modern!

    Smash Em,

    Jerry
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Lorna, we are always thinking about it. And yes, everybody likes it, as do I.

    The contrast - I suppose readers here will hate this - between the freedom of TS.com and the way we do it for the Grand is we need to use some force in order to fill the early squads.

    Say we put up 50 squads and only 35 fill. Now it's decision time. We know people are waiting until we open more but can we afford to? If they dig in their heels and decide to just wait and do it at the Grand for the morning events, then squadding at the Grand will be huge and everyone will be furious at the wait and the crowds.

    Basically, we need more experience at running the Grand at Sparta. How many are going to come? How many will decide to wait us out on the successively-opened-squads arrangement.

    We have to make some other provisions as well. Vendors can't run their businesses and trek down to trap 120. They need somewhere close, as do the central handicap people (but not the EC - we just have to be at the same time and I've shot the far end as much as anyone.)

    Though the decision won't be made until next week, I'm betting on a variation of last year's system. I'll explore having some feedback on the website so people can be sure they are "in" and where they will be, but no promises yet.

    Neil
     
  8. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been to Sparta so maybe I don't understand the dynamic. Most major shoots that I have attended are a little thin in the early hours of the shoot, in most cases due to lighting conditions. I assume that holds true for Sparta as well. Does it?

    If so maybe the organizers could open a reduced number of traps early in the shooting day and save some money that way. I am sure PreSquad.com or any other way to organize could implement some system like that or am I missing the problem?

    At least if there was a limited number of banks opening early there would be a much better chance that they would fill.

    Regards,

    Jerry
     
  9. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    How about registering with the FULL price of the round? This might help some draggin their feet in filling the early. Just a thought.
     
  10. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I have ever seen a shoot cashiered by R. J. Stuart pre-squadded on Pre-Squad.com. Perhaps that has more to do with it than the ATA. JRM
     
  11. shotgunfun

    shotgunfun TS Member

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    Neil,

    I fully understand......I am sure it is not as easy to make these decisions as many of us think it is! :eek:) I would throw into this that I presquadded for the Missouri state shoot last night.....and by today the mid squads are pretty much filled. I know Missouri WILL fill most of those early slots......honestly, if it is going to get windy in Missouri, you want to shoot early! LOL........you just never know. I think it is that way in most of the midwest states.

    That being said, I guess those traveling in from further locations around Sparta would also like not to be there for the first events early.....but if they don't fill the early spots.....many people will miss their squads as they did last year. Sparta REALLY moves people thru! If you haven't been there...be EARLY either way for your squad......I know alot of people missed their doubles squads last year. They FLEW thru them!

    All the best, Neil. I have full faith the decision will be the right one; and I will probably presquad either way.....it just makes my life alittle easier when I can use presquad! :eek:) Thank you for your post in regards to mine...it is appreciated.

    Lorna
     
  12. shotgunfun

    shotgunfun TS Member

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    I forgot to mention......no, R.J Stuart does NOT use presquad.com at this time....but I heard they are working on it........just what I heard......don't start a rumor!

    Lorna
     
  13. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    Neil i just dont buy your reasons not to use PRE SQUAS iam sorry.Jerry 94T said it well so i wont repeat him. So let us move on and get going on this, please dont hold us back. Iam sure it will work, if it has a glitch or two a good mamagement team can handle those problem.
     
  14. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Neil - For what is worth I did not find a problem with the pre-squad at last years Grand. I thought they did an excellent job. Keep it just as it was last year. The ATA needs the additional income that can be derived. But alas please do not alter the system so that many can pick and/or choose the banks of thier liking and/or shoot the same banks daily. Mix it just as it was last year. Please it is time to remember all the participants of the Grand deserve equal treatment. No more good old boys at Vandalia treatment. - Jim
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Neil, last year's grand scheduling worked fine for me also....

    Jim C

    Hell, Michigan
     
  16. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    Two things,

    If the early squads are going to be empty or not very well used and not filling them will cause some one that hinks they are on a later squad to miss because all of the sudden squad 99 is the first squad out, make the pre squadding for those early squads reduced squadding fee's if not presquadded for free? saving a buck or two might fill things up.

    2nd

    If you are going to do the vendors the service of trying to keep the traps they shoot over reasonably close to there building, tent, whatever, after figuring the number of squads and the numbers will rotate, hold open, that is management reserve enough slots for the those areas, I beleive this is already being done with some PRE-SQUAD.COM shoots already!

    I like presquadding when I know what days I plan on shooting in advance! But it's is a pain to try to be the third or fourth squad out and show up as early as getting a kid to school will let you and find yourself rushing because there aren't any squads in front of you!

    Al


    PS if the ATA would create a shooters entry page where I/we could put our scores in as soon as we get to an on-line computer, wouldn't we be able to do alot if not most of the classifying on-line and save some the endless lines at trap shoots????????????????
     
  17. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I see nothing wrong with the current Grand system. What long lines?? What lines there are seem to me as a social event. I have met some really nice people while in line at Vandalia, now there were some lines but only for 2 or 2 days.

    Don
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jims, E & C, the EC will be discussing with RJ Stuart his suggestion that he write a bank/time assignment randomization program to use this year. Except for holding a few squads back for vendors and so on, I think it sounds like a good idea.

    I'd like to see it include time preferences - early, mid, late - but thereafter chance seems as fair a way to get it done as any.

    Neil
     
  19. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Neil the one thing wrong with bank selection is: Many of the better shooters pick the banks they like best. Being able to shoot the same bank daily is an advantage. Sparta only has a few banks that present a little more difficulty. All participants should have the same options. - Jim
     
  20. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Yes, by all means.
     
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