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Powder Used in Federal Papers?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by FormerMarine, Jun 24, 2009.

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  1. FormerMarine

    FormerMarine Member

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    Can anyone tell me what kind of powder is used in Federal Papers?

    Is it any different than what is used in the Gold Medals? Top Guns?

    TIA

    Bill
     
  2. Buckdeerdown

    Buckdeerdown TS Member

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    A guy at Pine Belt knows.
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I think he's asking what kind of powder Federal puts in them at the factory.
     
  4. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Federal used to use RED DOT exclusivelyb but it was a different blend than what we reloaders could buy.

    We can duplicate it though. and get it pretty close w/about 19.5 grs.- 20.0 grs



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  5. K-80BUD

    K-80BUD TS Member

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    The powder when you cut it open looks like Green Dot. I asked Ben at Alliant and he said that Alliant will put any color markers in the powder that the client wants. So it might be Green Dot, Red Dot or some mix that is non canister grade. Bud Wood
     
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  6. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    I cut one open about 30yrs ago and it weighed on my Lyman scale just shy of 22 grains.

    Looked like a variant of Red Dot.

    I shot new papers for over 10 yrs. and I always thought they were hotter than advertised.

    Havent shot the new ones yet. A little pricey these days.

    Regards....Gerald
     
  7. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    "Federal used to use RED DOT exclusivelyb but it was a different blend than what we reloaders could buy. "

    A different blend? It is either Red Dot or it isn't. That is like saying; this is Coke but it is blended like Seven-up.
     
  8. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    Since they changed wads and power don't think they are as good as olden day shells and way to high in price g3
     
  9. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    jerry p; just for your information there was several grades of red dot for shells loaded by factories. The red dot for us was red dot 30. If you doubt it call Ben at Alliant, he will tell you how many grades of red dot there are.

    Dave
     
  10. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "A different blend? It is either Red Dot or it isn't." Good point.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Federal uses an OEM powder that is similar to Red Dot. When we buy Red Dot, 18 grains will preform just like 18 grains of Red Dot made 10 years ago. When the factory buys a lot of OEM powder similar to Red Dot, it has to adjust the powder charge for that specific lot. Not unlike what we have to do for Promo powder.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Squibb- I can absolutely assure you that Federal does not use Titewad or Universal powder in any of their shells.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Miles

    Miles Member

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    i don't know for sure, but years ago i was told that it was PB.
     
  14. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Actually Red Dot may not be Red Dot...or at least the Red Dot available to the public is often different than a shell manufacturer would order.

    At least in some cases, shell manufactures order powder at a particular burn rate. If the finished product does not meet the manufactures burn rate specs, they will not accept it. I have bought 55 gallon drums of powder at a very reduced price that was turned down by the manufacturer...and it all shot just fine!
     
  15. johnpe

    johnpe Member

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    Concerning Red Dot powder. Many years ago I read that Red Dot came from Hercules (this was years before Alliant entered the picture) in ten grades - 10 through 100. Each had a different burning rate. The Red Dot was the one sold to reloaders was no. 30. Later, when it first came out, I read that Green Dot was one of the "Red Dots" but with green flakes.

    Johnpe
     
  16. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    Does anybody think the new fed papers are as good as the old ones made in 70's thru 90's I think they changed wads in 1998 not sure about power. I think old fed. papers were better as well as the old AA new AA are bad had 1 flat with 5 blopers and several weak ones 2 3/4 1 1/8 7 1/2 AA reds geo 3
     
  17. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    Back in the 1950 to 1960 area, federals was loaded with red dot powder. I cant recall the company who bought them out but they changed the powder to vihtavuori powder to load federals. Alliant bought them out and I have no idea what they are loading now but I would assume it is Alliant powder.

    Dave
     
  18. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    You would think it would be some sort of Alliant powder. Alliant Powder, and Federal Cartridge are owned by Alliant Techsystems Inc. (ATK). They are an aerospace and defense company. They also own CCI/Speer, Blazer, Gunslick, RCBS, Weaver, and many others. Wayne
     
  19. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

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    The Red Dot you and I buy has a set, established burning rate. The "Red Dot" sold to the ammunition manufacturers is available in various burning rates or cannister grades, and can be custom "tweaked" to attain a specific burning rate by adding or subracting the amount of burning rate deterrents in the formula. It is STILL Red Dot regardless of which cannister grade we are talking about. The principle is very similar to adding or subtracting octane from gasoline to either retard or accelerate the burning rate respectively, but it is still gasoline regardless of whether it is 87, 89, or 93 octane. .....Rick
     
  20. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    OK which ones are better 1960 thru 1995 or 2000-2009 I think the old ones are because of the 12so wads which are the ones with the red base 2piece wad I think . g3
     
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