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powder,reloading and auto loaders

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by maclellan1911, Oct 24, 2007.

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  1. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I was wondering? I have not come across any data related to which powder or reload recipe with performance of the auto loader in mind. I love my light shooting clays recipy. It will not cycle my Browning Gold even with the light piston installed. Now I have bumped up the powder charge. What I would like to know is what powders produce the most gas volume? 2. Any use for older remington57 primers
     
  2. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    I have heard that Clays International powder poduces a favorable "gas bubble" for auto-loaders. It surely worked well in mine, both 1100's and 391's.
     
  3. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I use Clays for my one ounce loads (at about 1200 fps) and they cycle my daughter's 1100 just fine.
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I visit all the powder web sites for info. Im just noticed there isnt much data specific for auto loaders. I do not shoot the auto all that much. Just curious to why no spesific data
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen any reloading data that differentiates any load as "recommended for autoloaders" or any other type of firearm.
     
  6. ke4yyd

    ke4yyd Member

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    Your Browning Gold must be finicky. I shot 3/4 oz 12 ga loads for a couple years in my Gold and they cycled fine. A few months ago I dropped the load to 5/8 oz and they still work. They even work in my 1100 that was made in the middle 70's. Both guns have 22 inch barrels.

    I use promo powder and what ever primer costs the least. Right now I am using Nobel Sport. I use a #29 bushing in my MEC.
     
  7. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Pressure. I don't know how light a load you're using, but if the pressure is kept above 9000 or 10,000 psi, it should cylce your gun fine.

    ~Michael
     
  8. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Well let me start over, I started reloading a year ago. Then started reloading some light loads to duplicate the Remington STS managed recoil loads for my wife. No one locally stocks these. When she first started shooting it was with a 870. After the 2 flats of STS managed recoil were out, I started loading some custom loads for her. As follows 1oz shot CCI 209 Rem TGT 12 15.4g clays for 8700psi 1125fps. I now have come to really like these loads out of my XT for 16y and league shooting. I have been shooting a bit with the auto loader and found that these loads do not function well and also some newer faster trial loads have a few cycle issues. What has come to me is you see all the powders list get for 12g 38 45, specially designed for 20 or 28 gauge or this and that depending on powder. For example came across red dot for 12g only. I know there is a older loading manual amongst the family some where that has some 20g loads? I called browning on this, They stated As long as the 1 1/8 once or less piston is installed should function all Factory loads except with the lightest of the loads which she only said AA feather lights that she knew of at the time. As far as cleaning. I tell you I had some second thoughts when I first bought this gun. It would go 250 rounds then hang up, clean ok then 100rounds hang up. A good call to browning. From what the tech said, they used a fair amount of anti rust goo on these guns. Was told to remove stock action spring and clean action spring tube like a gun barrel including spring. lightly oil and install. Was told by browning gun should work great now. It does. Gets a good bore wipe and quick clean every time out then a complete tear down 2500 shots. 7500 shots later its been awesome. Now when i brought up reloads about the cycling issues the women told me she recommends new factory shells and has no info or advice on reloads since they do not use reloads in any of their testing. She then went on to tell me its not the power of the shot but the volume of the gas that operates the action, I asked her how much volume is needed? She could not answer that question, never bothered to call back on that one. Leading me to the question of powder companies with a powder or load recipe that produces enough gas volume. Any way I found I really like the Remington Game loads for the auto 1oz 1290fps.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about volume.

    The "volume" of the gas piston/cylinder is very small compared to the volume of the barrel.

    Try a reload formula with a little higher pressure, say above 9000 psi.
     
  10. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Thanks everyone. I would put money on my reloads before the gun, Just going to load some 1200fps 9000psi recipe next loading cycle.
     
  11. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    maclellan1911

    I believe the secret is using 'enough" of an "appropriate" powder to provide sufficient pressure to work the action. If you load too lightly with ANY powder, an auto may not function reliably. I use 7/8 ounce loads and they go out at 1225 fps or better for reliability. I tried some at under 1180 and wasn't able to get reliable functioning. With the One ounce loads, I had to go over around 1150, and the 1 1/8 needed over somewhere around 1125. It seemed like the powder didn't matter too much as long as it "fit" the load being used. Longshot loaded down for 7/8 ounce loads would be a bad idea. Red Dot, Promo, Clays, etc., would work fine with lighter payloads like 7/8 ounce. Light loads and an auto just don't usually work well together. It also depends on the auto. I have an old Winchester 1400 that will digest almost anything within reason, including the featherlites, as long as I keep it clean. My 1100 needs loads that are a bit more stout, as mentioned above. Primers can also make a difference as can temperatures.

    I think you are just starting to find out what reloading is all about. It's an education in trial and error. You can spend way more time at the reloading bench, pattern board, and chronograph than actually shooting trap. I enjoy it. Some people don't. To each their own.

    You could also put the question to the powder companies to get some insight on the subject. Alliant and Hodgdon would be a good place to start. I'd be interested in their perspective.
     
  12. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I believe I first used the term "gas bubble" on this forum. I learned that term from Hodgdon when I inquired about the fact that with loads with the same hulls, primer, wad, payload, and velocity (low); my auto frequently malfunctioned with Clays, and but worked with International Clays. This is spite of the fact that the pressure was lower with International.

    Hodgdon noted I was shooting a gas operated auto, and pointed out the obvious fact that it is the gas produced, not the pressure, that works the gun. It was then that Hodgdon explained the bigger "gas bubble" associated with International Clays.
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I doubt that any of the powder manufacturers can provide test data directly applied to an automatic, or any other style of action. Powder testing is done with a pressure gun that looks more like a fixed lathe with a barrel than a gun. The receiver is universal. It can fire a 28 ga shotgun shell, a 30-06 rifle bullet and a 38 cal. hand gun shell. All that needs to be done is unscrew one barrel and put on another one. The information from the pressure gun can give reliable data on chamber pressure and this can be extrapolated to how it would work an auto action, but there is no direct testing using an automatic shotgun.

    Pressure guns are only found in the laboratories of powder and gun manufacturers and in the basement of Neil Winston's home.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    flincher100 - One of the other things I was told in that 'gas bubble' conversation was that all pressure peaks come well before the wad clears the hull.
     
  15. ExFedex

    ExFedex Active Member

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    Very interesting MRskeet410, and Flincher100. I have a Special Field 1100 LT20 with a 21" barrel that spits empties beyond two stations to the right when I have had the rubber band shell catcher break. Perhaps 16.5 gr. of WSF is why. The gas ports may be closer to the chamber on the Special Field model too as it has a shorter forearm. Great field gun but does not play well with others.
     
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