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Possible cheating on lost calls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by savage49, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. savage49

    savage49 TS Member

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    What are the rules written or unwritten regarding a shooter overruling the scorer who has called a lost bird, by that shooter claiming to see a chip of the clay pigeon fall from one of his team mates shots. Clearly no pieces fell and happened twice over 50 targets shot by same 2 people. Dana.
     
  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    "The scorers decision on lost or dead targets is final, subject to review only by the shoot committee or other governing body." ATA rule book, Section VII Official Scoring.

    Eric
     
  3. Jim Bradbury

    Jim Bradbury Member

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    To the best of my knowledge. The chip must be seen by at least two shooters other than the shooter to over rule the score keeper.
     
  4. jhoward

    jhoward Member

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    By rule, there is no way to over rule the score keeper. Usually if someone sees a chip and calls it, the score keeper will make the correction, but that is up to the score keeper, they are not required to change the score even if all five shooters and 20 people standing around watching all say they saw a chip.

    If you think they are cheating by calling chips for each other, simply tell the score keeper you didn't see a chip. If they insist, call for shoot management.
     
  5. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    Geez is there no shame left in the world.


    Darr
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    You can ask for a referee to make the calls if there are questionable calls by the scorer ... I was called on more than once to do just that at a couple of the shoots out here in Arizona ... Not sure if they have to provide one or not but you won't know if you don't ask ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Was at a shoot this winter. The squad leader called dead target a couple of times for the shooter directly to my left. I never saw anything but a wad...
     
  8. Pipe Layer

    Pipe Layer Well-Known Member

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    There has never been a rule saying at least two shooters must see a chip.Some shooters just take that as a rule. The finial call is up to the scorer or a line ref.has to make a call.

    TD
     
  9. savage49

    savage49 TS Member

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    Thanks will follow ATA rules.
     
  10. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    PITA rules allow overriding the score keeper if the shooter, and two others on the squad see a piece.

    Ajax
     
  11. bossbasl

    bossbasl Well-Known Member

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    The score keeper is "sole judge of fact". If shoot management allows anything different, I will find a different club that is managed correctly. Lyle
     
  12. himark

    himark Well-Known Member

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    Always score keeper or referee can be final call.

    One thing when I see a chip and I hear loss for someone else I am quick to yell out chip before the next shot is fired. However, you get on a fast squad and even though you yell it out ASAP you feel bad for it screwing with the next shooter. I have heard some guys say you should wait until its your turn then say...."ah post 2 had a chip there" That would keep the harmony but seems like if you see one you should call it ASAP.
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Why not just go to the video replay? HMB
     
  14. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    We have all had "green" or young score keepers that don't know what their doing, a seasoned squad with integrity will keep things straight.
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    While not a rule, through four decades of reg. shooting, generally if two shooters on a squad other than the shooter say they saw a piece the scorekeeper grants it. Never seen it disputed.
     
  16. guthooked

    guthooked Member

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    had three guys on my squad doing that last year. After the second time by each I told them they all missed and they never claimed to hit any more birds. I thought maybe at first I didnt see the chips,but really watched their birds after that. They had the poor score keeper in tears. John S
     
  17. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    I call it out immediately. If someone else saw a piece, fine. If no one else saw a piece, that's fine too. I have had shooters call it for me and I do the same if I see a piece.

    I'm from an area that shoots in a lot of rain,trees and weather, it helps to have everyone eye's on the target.

    Ajax
     
  18. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    There are certain shooters that do a lot of target claiming both for themselves and their buddies. Usually, the scorer is a teenager and they don't stand up to the cheaters. Can't say I blame the scorer. The blame should go to the cheaters and they know damn well who they are as do a lot of others know who they are. Seems to be more rampant in some states than others.
     
  19. X2 fan

    X2 fan Active Member

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    I will never called one for myself but will not hesitate to call one for another shooter. I was at a shoot a couple of weeks ago and thought I had chipped a target but said nothing. After we were done shooting, I said to one of the squad that I thought I had "that one". He said it was the wad but watched it all the way down just in case.

    Tim
     
  20. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    The guys were cheats, plain and simple.