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POI ?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by grunt, Aug 19, 2007.

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  1. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    POI is 2 1/2 inch's above aim point. Need percentage of pattern. 70/30,80/20 ect. Thanks Dave.
     
  2. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I shot at 13 yards at a setup like MIAs board. Dave
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Grunt, I hate to encourage people to make this translation, since DAC has a point - once you have "the facts" there's little point in degrading a precise measurement into an estimate.

    It depends on the gun.

    A. If this is an overbarrel with a conventional rib, a good guess would be 80/20. It it an overbarrel with a high rib, raise that first number.

    B. If this is an unsingle or lower barren with a conventional rib, a good guess would be about 90/10. Again, higher with a higher rib.

    But you only need that ratio in two situations, The first is when you sell it, and the buyer thinks he knows what you are talking about. The second is hanging around the club shooting the breeze with a similar audience.

    The trouble is almost no one does know what it means, how it would be applied to the gun he is shooting now, and worst of all, doesn't know he doesn't know. It one of these great myths handed down through time like an amulet or secret handshake and accepted by the next generation as a revered relic whose source is little remembered. Its purpose today is to create a bond within a group rather do anything useful and as such is harmless to most except that it retards the adoption of a different, better standard (distance) , which would be useful. But only useful to those who actually test their guns and there are so few of them what's the difference?

    And it's kind of fun to rivet an audience at the club with the implications of moving from 70/30 to 80/20, much as you might, at a UFO convention, relate the details your latest abduction.

    Neil
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I agree with Neil. The most useful point gained by checking the POI is some assurance that the gun does not shoot to the right or left. This can be a real problem.

    I have carefully measured my POI from a rest shooting targets 13 yards from the end of the gun. When I do this, I am aiming the shotgun as I would a rifle. From a rest, I have my barrel set to shoot 7 inches high at 13 yards. When I am on the line, I look through the front sight and concentrate on the target (sometimes). I do not think it is possible to directly convert a POI shot with one aiming style to another POI shot with a very different type of aiming system.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Good point, Pat. Certainly true, but I often wonder why. The only "explanation" I can come up with is that shooting is an integrated neuromuscular performance where changing one element (how you get the muzzle where it needs to be) has big effects on other elements (the timing of the trigger pull) , but that doesn't get us anywhere, does it?

    Neil
     
  6. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    I agree with both Neil and Pat,

    When I did my POI testing with my new Citori XT, for my upper barrel, my results were very similar to #6 in the picture above. The lower barrel printed 1.5" to the left.

    To make a long story short, I found I was canting the gun to the left and found this much the same way as Pat describes and attaching a 9" torpedo level to the barrels using a rubber band to detect and counteract the canting. The result was finding both barrels shoot pretty close to the same POI at 13yds.

    One thing Neil didn't point out but mentioned to me in the past is you have to do a lot of POI testing to see what the trend is. Two to three boxes of shells isn't too much.

    At some point I will have to have an adjustable butt pad or plate to help compensate, in the meantime I have memorized the sight picture and consciously twist the gun to the right but don't know if it remains that way throughout the swing. Maybe that is why I have not broken 25 straight yet, but scored lots of 22's and 23's - that and I have only been shooting trap for a couple of months.

    Mike
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil- At times I have very little integration between the neuro and the muscular aspects of shooting trap. The muscular part should follow orders from the neuro central command, but at times other things happen.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    I created this file for a Citori Plus I had. The instructions described how to set the rib to shoot from 3" to 12" high. I started at the far left with a gun that shoots a 30" pattern 50/50. This seems to be mathematically correct. However, I'm not sure you can use 13 yards and extrapolate to 39 yards. At 39 yards you should have some significant shot drop caused by gravity.

    Danny
     
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