1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

+++++POI VS INCHES HIGH

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by SMOKEIT, Feb 16, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    What is the relationship between POI and how many inches the center of the pattern is above the aimed at center?......SMOKIT
     
  2. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8,692
    They are the same thing. Either that or I am not understanding your question. Do you mean point of aim compared to POI? Jon
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,413
    POI = the center of the pattern. HMB
     
  4. open choke

    open choke TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    406
    The way it was explained to me is....

    The POI is the center of the pattern but if your setup to shoot 80/20; 80% will be above the center and 20% below.

    I don't hear of too many people refer to it in inches
     
  5. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    EXAMPLE--80/20 POI EQUAL PATTERN CENTER 8? INCHES ABOVE AIMED AT CENTER..
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,413
    One more time. POI is where the center of the pattern is at a specific yardage.
    For example, the center of the pattern is 8 inches above the POA(point of aim) at 30 yards. HMB
     
  7. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,518
    I'm a bit confused too. (Regarding the nomenclature.) But perhaps we can simplify things and assume that the effective pattern is 30" in diameter. Therefore, the a pattern that is, say, geometrically "set up" to be 80/20 would have 80% of the pattern above the point to which the front bead was pointed assuming the beads were initially in a classic figure 8. Or, put another way, 24 vertical inches of the pattern would be above the "0" line and 6 inches below. Or, if a slug were used, the slug would impact somewhere between the zero line and 24 inches high.

    Now...this may be very wrong in the lexicon that is most common, it is just kinda the way I think of it, with the "core" of the pattern shifting up or down in theory. I, for one, don't worry about "stacked beads", but adjust comb until it is comfortable and then maybe adjust an adjustable rib if the rib is adjustable. I am not looking for stacked beads, but for some kind of target breaking at the 16 yard line that "feels" correct and doesn't bring surprises. I find that I can almost totally stay away from rib adjustments if the stock fits me; then minor adjustments on the pad up or down seem to be quite effective assuming that the rib is not unusually low or high at the muzzle compared to the breach.
     
  8. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,800
    SMOKIT , I think the percentage reference is for 40yds and 80/20 would be 9 inches.
     
  9. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,070
    The baseline when talking patterns is a 30" diameter at 40 yards. In theory a gun that patterns 50/50 shoots 15" of the pattern above the barrel and 15" below the barrel. As you raise the point of impact more percentage of the 30" pattern is above the barrel. When the precentage terminology falls apart is when the pattern reaches 100% above the barrel, which is when the very bottom of the pattern is in theory touching the top of the barrel. Once you you start talking in terms of 110% or 120% it becomes very subjective.

    The percentage reference was born years ago when a very high shooting gun may be 70% above the barrel. The only legitmate way to measure point of impact above 100% is in inches, not percentages.

    Surfer
     
  10. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    Johnny gets it--I forgot that the distance to the board is also a factor....SMOKIT
     
  11. BROWNST100

    BROWNST100 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    589
    Location:
    LEWISBERRY, PA.
    Is this what your looking for?

    Subject: POA vs POI ?


    15 inches @ 40 yrds.... 5 inches @ 13 yards.... 100%


    12 inches @ 40 yrds .... 4 inches @ 13 yards.... 90/10


    9 inches @ 40 yrds .... 3 inches @ 13 yards.... 80/20


    6 inches @ 40 yrds .... 2 inches @ 13 yards.... 70/30


    3 inches @ 40 yrds.... 1 inches @ 13 yards.... 60/40


    All based on a 30 inch pattern.

    Vern
     
  12. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Almost all Mfgrs use 35 Yards for POI, I was talking to Richie at Seitz a day or so ago and he asked me if I was shooting at 35 Yards and I told him yes.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  13. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    Thank you Vern.!..............SMOKIT
     
  14. soundaround

    soundaround Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    74
    Lots of good information. I just have one question for the original post...what is the reason for the inquiry? Are you having an issue in number of clays hit? I am not being snide or otherwise smart with the question. I am interested intellectually.

    When I know that my gun fits (it hits targets, where I look, with the sight pattern I prefer), and I am shooting with focus, I hit what I shoot at whether its at 35 yards, 38, 42, or 42+ yards.

    If this is an exercise in patterning then that's cool, but I wonder what the really good info provided in the responses means in terms of scores. Really interested in learning so please don't take offense with this post.
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,070
    A flat shooting gun (50/50 normally requires most shooters to cover some or all of the target in order to center punch it. Lots of shooters shoot flat guns and do very well with them at trap targets. Another group wants to see the target above the barrel thoughout the entire shot sequence which requires a much higher poi for most. Some shooters like Gary are shooting patterns higher than 15" at 40 yards which equate to 110 or 120% and do very well with a higher poi (higher scores)

    Surfer
     
  16. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    Soundaround.

    .The question occurred to me while evaluating some new shells at the pattern board. Normally I shoot 5 rounds at the board from 30 yards then try to evaluate whether I am shooting 80/20--70/30 etc. I was having a difficult time doing this type of evaluation so I looked at how far the center of the pattern was from the aiming point. Just got to wondering about the relationship between POA andPOI.

    Yes, i have an issue with the number of clays I break-- I miss a few of them...I don't want t miss a few of them..I don't want to miss ANY! SMOKIT
     
  17. soundaround

    soundaround Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    74
    I got it, I am definitely in the same boat. I certainly was not making any point.

    I am novice to this sport, in that I never picked up a shotgun before 2 years ago and I am too old for that to have been the case. The instructor I have worked with just doesn't believe in pattern boards. He always requires all fitting to be done with flying targets. I stressed over this until one day for me it clicked that I will never fix any thing with the front brain (which shell, which load, what gun, etc.) But that's just me, and I wanted to understand the process and the reason for the inquiry.

    As I see it for myself, my biggest problem is not shooting enough. But I know that there is a world of information out there. Again, thank you for the post and response, I was interested in the process and truly appreciate all the input you and others have added to this wonderful sport and question
     
  18. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8,692
    Soundaround,

    It sounds like your instructor knows what he is talking about. You have to get the gun to shoot where you are looking, not where you are aiming. Concentrate and follow through. Jon

    P.S. I just noticed, no pun intended.
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,328
    Location:
    Shawnee, Kansas, USA
    Percentages (80/20, 70/30, etc.) are confusing and ambiguous. Ask ten different people what it really means, and you're likely to get dumb looks and/or ten different answers.

    What Vern posted above "seems" clear, but bear in mind this has been debated, and other people will give you a similar table, but with different numbers.

    Some people will tell you that pattern percentage means how many of the actual counted pellets are above the POI, and how many are below. This requires actually counting pellets on the pattern board, and does not relate to inches.

    And as you've seen just on this thread, everybody has a differing opinion of what yardage is used, 30? 35? 40?

    Which one is right?

    Expressing pattern height in terms of "center of pattern is X inches above POA at YY yards" is clear, easily understood, and unambiguous.
     
  20. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    SOUTHLAKE,TEXAS
    I don't think what yardage you use makes any difference as long as you use the same yardage every time. You still have to relate what you see at the board to how well you actually break the birds. SMOKIT
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.